Dex Suits now have -10 Dex Loss...

What happened?
Chain tunic, chain legs, ring sleeves, ring gloves, dragon gorget, close helm, was a 0 dex loss suit now its -10 dex.

Bone armor was no dex loss now it is....

Did I miss something?

**Update**
Ok I saw the publish that said dex loss for bone is back but why the rest?

baaahhh this sucks

Ringmail consumes less dex; -2 for the tunic and -1 for the leggings. This is a +5 dex improvement over the chainmail, with not that much of an AR loss (-2 AR?). You can either go with a -10 dex loss or a -5 dex loss with ringmail.

These changes make using a greater agility potion to get the fastest swing rate with 100 dex no longer an option unless you don't wear armor or wear studded leather.

Previously, I was using 85 dex with a greater agility potion to get the 2nd fastest swing rate and still have 40 int. This will still give me 94-95 dex with a previously normal dex suit, but I can't afford to run into creatures/people and still be able to swing at the proper rate without using a refresh potion. Not that bad of a set back, but these changes "nerf" the ability for common dexxers to use the fastest swing rate at 120 stamina unless they opt to wear studded armor. Also, one clumsy will ruin your swing rate, while previously at 85 dex with an agility potion you could get clumsy on you and still swing at the proper rate.

The bone armor is -13 dex, which kind of negates the previous usefulness of the armor. Before, it didn't give you dex loss and a nice 64 AR with an invuln suit and a studded gorget, but the catch is you can't repair this armor unless I am mistaken. These changes kinda "nerf" this type of armor. I'd rather just go with a platemail suit and take +11 AR and -4 dex compared to the bone suit. Perhaps bone armor should be given the exception to the dex loss in order for 100 dex fighters to get the fastest swing rate and still have great AR, since this armor can't be repaired and you throw it away quickly after it takes a beating from a macer.

These changes make studded leather less of a worthless suit. Previously, I was automatically "vendoring" invulnerability studded leather pieces that were not gloves or gorgets due to their overall worthlessness. I think fortification ringmail tunics were giving me more AR than invulnerability studded tunics. The gloves and the gorgets were the exception, because the gloves were equal to invulnerability ringmail gloves and the gorgets were your best option for no dex loss, plus you can dye both of them. The sleeves are not that bad, either.

Overall, these changes probably hurt bone armor the most, but they make ringmail and studded leather more relevant. The poor ol' bone armor. You can't repair it, you can't vendor it, and now you lose -13 dex with a bone suit. I think there should be something to make it have more usefulness, such as making a certain vendor type allow you to sell it, or giving it no dex loss as before. Perhaps even just giving it half the dex loss it has now (-6 or -7) would do something. As of now, a 100 stamina dexxer can't equip bone armor and swing at the 2nd fastest rate without buffs, while you can with chainmail and a gorget that doesn't reduce dex.

I'm still unsure of why people think they should have a 70AR suit that gives 0 dex loss. full invul plate only gives 70 AR, why should something you can craft give the same with 0 dex loss. Sounds a bit OP to me.

edit: If you can convince me that the high end armors shouldn't have dex less, then I will switch it back. As it stands, it kind of seems like a little dexxer secret that no one really talked about. The moment I heard about it, I decided to change it. I'm pretty sure this is the only server I have ever played on that had either t2A or UOR base mechanics that had this kind of messed up dex loss on armor. The dex loss values now are taken straight from the UOR era.

I changed this to help alleviate some of the issues people are expressing with weapon damage against players. The current main issue is that everyone is running around with extremely high AR. To compensate for the change to dex loss, I have also nerfed all leather armors. I will detail these changes in a bit here and why I did them.

I am not sure how someone could hit 70AR in a dexxer suit, unless they were using a shield. The GM dexxer suits I sell (chain chest/helm/legs ; ringmail arms/gloves ; barbed gorgot) only give 50AR.

However, I do agree with @Adam , if people are hitting 70AR that is pretty crazy.

~ With the upcoming barbed nerf, I would be interested in seeing how things are with the current dexxer armor. Could be pretty sweet!

Tydeus you can repair bone ar with a tailor. I did it often. Kept those suits fresh.

Mango said:

I am not sure how someone could hit 70AR in a dexxer suit, unless they were using a shield. The GM dexxer suits I sell (chain chest/helm/legs ; ringmail arms/gloves ; barbed gorgot) only give 50AR.

However, I do agree with @Adam , if people are hitting 70AR that is pretty crazy.

~ With the upcoming barbed nerf, I would be interested in seeing how things are with the current dexxer armor. Could be pretty sweet!

Click to expand...

It happens with magical armor or runic tailor armor -- not with plain GM made stuff.

My argument is - cool, dex loss now can balance out armor -- lower leather AR, sweet -- but with the difficulty of making Runic Boned armor -- there should be some sort of trade off when wearing it. Its expensive and not common -- it should be a little (not a lot) OP.

i agree with halygon. i just bought a bone suit, spent a fortune on it. now its useless, the dex loss is too high.

Ah, I wasn't aware you can repair bone armor with tailor repair contracts. I'm pretty sure in old UO (1997-1998), you could not repair bone armor.

There are no 70 AR suits that give 0 dex loss, AFAIK. I saw a 60 something (64?) AR leather suit that gives 0 dex loss, but that is a special craft with a rare crafting tool.

Last time I checked, an invul full plate gives 75 AR and -17 dex. I sold one the other day on my vendor so I checked it only a few days ago. The invul bone armor gives 64 AR with a studded gorget, the same as the highest quality leather armor.

We are looking at -17 dex for platemail, -13 dex for bone, -10 dex for chain, -5 dex for ringmail, and -0 dex for leather armors.

If you want to use the fastest swing rate, you must then use studded leather, which is fine by me because it makes this sort of armor actually worth something now.

But, looking at the differences between platemail and bone, the bone armor is now inferior to platemail AND chainmail/ringmail; although, this may depend on your stats.

With 100 dex, the platemail will allow you to swing at the 2nd fastest rate (103 dex with a greater agility potion, and you can lose -13 dex without needing to consume a TR potion), while at 85 dex, the max you are going to have is 88 dex with a potion. You'll be able to swing at the 2nd fastest rate using the bone armor with 85 dex, but that armor gives considerably less AR than platemail. I'd rather just tweak my stats to have 35 int and 90 dex and go with platemail and 92 max dex, which would give me 11 more AR points than the bone armor suit.

We also have to consider the usual invul dex suit armor such as the chainmail and ringmail combos. That can give you 63 to 61 AR depending on the gorget type; 63 AR with a platemail gorget (-1 dex) and 61 AR with a studded gorget. That is only 1-3 less AR than the bone armor with 3 more dex points, and you can equip these suits and still fire at the 2nd fastest rate without needing to consume an agility potion. IMO, the bone armor is now inferior to both the platemail and chainmail/ringmail armors, which come in abundance. Before, the advantage that bone armor offered was 0 dex loss and slightly more AR than the other 0 dex loss armors. Now, you are better off going with platemail or chainmail/ringmail, IMO. The previous bone armor wasn't that much better than the other 0 dex loss suits, and it was mostly a matter of what you wanted to appear like in the game.

Making bone armor have 0 dex loss and those other armors have dex loss does seem OP, but it wasn't OP before when the other armors had no dex loss. Bone armor has lost its value now, IMO. Maybe just doing a small tweak to make bone armor give -10 dex would be fine. This would at least make it as usable as the typical dexxer suits (ringmail + chainmail), like it was previously. I wouldn't want bone armor on me now because I'd be required to use an agility potion to swing at the 2nd fastest rate on my archers who have 100 dex. Using those agility potions for PvM is kind of a resource hog. I'd rather just use a chainmail + ringmail suit and have 90 dex with slightly less AR.

It could be fine the way it is, but I'm going to be switching armor types on my archers for the time being, and I have little use for bone armor on my macer and fencer now that it reduces dex by 13. I'd rather just take 5 points out of my int and put 5 more into dex while using platemail for an extra 11 AR boost instead of using bone armor. However, I would prefer just the usual chainmail + ringmail suits.

Mages can have invul armor and get hit for 5 dmg when we are using a vanq weapon. Now dexxers are screwed against other dexxers and mages. The armor should go back to having dex suits where only plate took dex. Unless mage armor gets nurffed or having the dex penalization worth the armor increase by which I mean that a dexxer can get hit with a vanq war hammer for 2 dmg on a consistent with the higher ar, But we are not an even easier kill against mages. It used to be that dexxers where able to defend against mages and other dexxers.

NoXXeD said:

Mages can have invul armor and get hit for 5 dmg when we are using a vanq weapon. Now dexxers are screwed against other dexxers and mages. The armor should go back to having dex suits where only plate took dex. Unless mage armor gets nurffed or having the dex penalization worth the armor increase by which I mean that a dexxer can get hit with a vanq war hammer for 2 dmg on a consistent with the higher ar, But we are not an even easier kill against mages. It used to be that dexxers where able to defend against mages and other dexxers.

Click to expand...

At least read the Devs posts in a thread before ranting. @Adam already stated leather is going to be nerfed making dexers better against mages but having to make a choice between offense and defense against other dexer.

Adam said:

To compensate for the change to dex loss, I have also nerfed all leather armors. I will detail these changes in a bit here and why I did them.

Click to expand...

Another possible thing for bone armor to make it not as worthless, is to bring it back to 0 dex loss but make it so you can't repair the bone armor as it was previously in old UO. The bone suits will be a bit OP with 0 dex loss (-10 dex is quite manageable), but they will not last very long. If you get into one fight with a macer that lasts for any considerable length of time, you're going to want to replace the suit even if you don't die. So, that is quite a bit of gold to be losing all the time just to have a nice 0 dex loss invul/fort bone armor suit. Or, just make it so only a legendary (or 110-115?) tailor (no contracts allowed) with rare/semi-rare repair bones can successfully repair any bone armor piece.

Just a thought.

There has to be something to make bone armor less worthless with the new changes. Even that -10 dex idea instead of -13 dex could do the trick. But, the short lasting bone armor idea may be workable. It would make these suits be in high demand I would assume, because they will be get busted up real quick and then become worthless.

Right now I am wondering if I will use bone armor ever again. I think every armor suit should have advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation.

Tydeus said:

Another possible thing for bone armor to make it not as worthless, is to bring it back to 0 dex loss but make it so you can't repair the bone armor as it was previously in old UO. The bone suits will be a bit OP with 0 dex loss (-10 dex is quite manageable), but they will not last very long. If you get into one fight with a macer that lasts for any considerable length of time, you're going to want to replace the suit even if you don't die. So, that is quite a bit of gold to be losing all the time just to have a nice 0 dex loss invul/fort bone armor suit. Or, just make it so only a legendary (or 110-115?) tailor (no contracts allowed) with rare/semi-rare repair bones can successfully repair any bone armor piece.

Just a thought.

There has to be something to make bone armor less worthless with the new changes. Even that -10 dex idea instead of -13 dex could do the trick. But, the short lasting bone armor idea may be workable. It would make these suits be in high demand I would assume, because they will be get busted up real quick and then become worthless.

Right now I am wondering if I will ever use bone armor ever again. I think every armor suit should have advantages and disadvantages depending on the situation.

Click to expand...

My thought is to make the magic bone armor drop very low so it is more rare. It will even out eventually from there.

I like these changes !

Wizx13 said:

What happened?
Chain tunic, chain legs, ring sleeves, ring gloves, dragon gorget, close helm, was a 0 dex loss suit now its -10 dex.

Bone armor was no dex loss now it is....

Did I miss something?

**Update**
Ok I saw the publish that said dex loss for bone is back but why the rest?

Click to expand...

I feel the same about this issue, it doesnt make sense what so ever, to me it gives mages advantage regardless either way you slice it. And theres more what this has done to a dexer but I guess they have to test it out on us with the negative comments here to actually say they screwed up

Adam said:

I'm still unsure of why people think they should have a 70AR suit that gives 0 dex loss. full invul plate only gives 70 AR, why should something you can craft give the same with 0 dex loss. Sounds a bit OP to me.

edit: If you can convince me that the high end armors shouldn't have dex less, then I will switch it back. As it stands, it kind of seems like a little dexxer secret that no one really talked about. The moment I heard about it, I decided to change it. I'm pretty sure this is the only server I have ever played on that had either t2A or UOR base mechanics that had this kind of messed up dex loss on armor. The dex loss values now are taken straight from the UOR era.

I changed this to help alleviate some of the issues people are expressing with weapon damage against players. The current main issue is that everyone is running around with extremely high AR. To compensate for the change to dex loss, I have also nerfed all leather armors. I will detail these changes in a bit here and why I did them.

Click to expand...

Honestly and probably speak for others with this AR and dex loss for dexers (inehich yall screwed up on honestly). You have put a few different stuff of different ages into this age. So lets cut to the chase lets get armor pieces with Fire,Cold,etc etc in the pieces cause honestly thats where this is leading to you will have alot of negative on this what you did. I eman I can see wearing all plate losing 5 Dex and bone using 10 Dex but but when you do that those type armor sets should get a +5 or +10 in added STR. And now dexer set loses 10 dex thats just plain ********. This is why we wear Dex suits so we dont lose any dex. You set this shard up for dexers where they need Dex and Stam to be able to balance with the mages damage of spells. And oh since now we lose 10 dex on our warriors what happens to heal rate it goes beyond 10.5 seconds per heal? I mean if you are GM Heal, GM Anat, and 100 dex dont you think 10.5 seconds per heal is alil long? Now you sent our Dex to 90 I hate to see how long healing takes now. theres more to this then you think when you and staff have a chat and do this

Praise Geebus our prayers have been heard.

Adam said:

I'm still unsure of why people think they should have a 70AR suit that gives 0 dex loss. full invul plate only gives 70 AR, why should something you can craft give the same with 0 dex loss. Sounds a bit OP to me.

edit: If you can convince me that the high end armors shouldn't have dex less, then I will switch it back. As it stands, it kind of seems like a little dexxer secret that no one really talked about. The moment I heard about it, I decided to change it. I'm pretty sure this is the only server I have ever played on that had either t2A or UOR base mechanics that had this kind of messed up dex loss on armor. The dex loss values now are taken straight from the UOR era.

I changed this to help alleviate some of the issues people are expressing with weapon damage against players. The current main issue is that everyone is running around with extremely high AR. To compensate for the change to dex loss, I have also nerfed all leather armors. I will detail these changes in a bit here and why I did them.

Click to expand...

I dont mind the nerf, was just shocked is all. I dont know what other people are crafting with but my Valorite dex suit was only 51 ar at best, far from 70ar that you talk about.

As far as weapon damage in pvp I dont understand what the fuss was about. Yea some people get 2 hit or whatever but my exp seems to be I miss more than I hit. GM swords and I have counted 5-11 misses in a row which imo is ridiculous.

Mount fatigue that is non existent is also a issue that needs to be addressed

This will probably be my last post on this subject. Rather lengthy, but I get into a habit of doing that.

I don't think these changes are going to be that bad, but I haven't yet seen anyone post information about what was "nerfed" with the leather armors.

If you think -10 dex is too awful, you could just use ringmail tunics and leggings for -5 dex with only slightly less AR than a chainmail tunic and leggings. Agility potions can give you 100+ dex with a chainmail + ringmail combo, so I'm thinking having 91-92 dex with chainmail users or 86-87 dex with ringmail only dexxers would work best because you can drink an agility and refresh potion to get 101-102 dex with the -10 and -5 dex loss suits and this is enough to get hit with a clumsy spell or run through something and still swing at the 2nd fastest rate. There is the other option of using invul studded leather, which I think is about the same AR as an exceptional valorite suit (51-52 AR), although I think this includes a regular dexxer helm as for some reason there is no studded leather helm. If they "nerfed" studded leather armor, perhaps they should only "nerf" leather armor and leave studded alone. This will increase the value of studded leather, which needs some better usefulness. Additionally, if they "nerfed" the studded leather, this would possibly make studded gorgets that people often use in their -10 dex suits less reliable. I can see leather armor on mages needing a bit of a nerf, but hopefully not too much.

Bone armor suits should be a bit rarer on a logical basis, because you can't craft bones, and getting just the right bone sizes to put together a suit of bone armor should take some work and dedication. This is just a game, though. Also, how do you go about repairing crushed bones? At worst, you would have to find bone replacement parts with the right length, which should be more of a chore than simply using some ingots to repair normal armor with a blacksmith. Repairing a bunch of crushed bones to a working state should be more difficult than simply using ingots to repair armor. I bet you it will cut down on some of the junk that is stacking up in the game if bone armor became no longer repairable while giving 0 dex loss. People will be getting their bone suits ruined without dying on a regular basis.

In all fairness, making bone armor pieces a rare find will put newer players at a disadvantage to the players who have already done thousands of MiBs/T-maps throughout the years and have hoarded hundreds of invul/fort bone armor pieces. All of a sudden their collection has gone up in value by quite a lot, and these changes won't even affect them for quite some time until they finally run out of bone armor, which would be a lot sooner if they could not repair the bone armor. If they could not repair it, they will have to conserve on their bone armor stash and use them more wisely if they don't want to have to deal with farming for them or buying them in the future.

We can simply make the bone armor pieces NOT repairable at all while giving 0 dex loss, like it was back in time. If not, perhaps -10 dex loss only for bone armor. The other idea was to keep the bone armor at 0 dex loss and make them more of a rare drop on monsters and in chests. Well, I've already got quite a lot of these bone armor pieces, so I wouldn't be complaining, but I think it is somewhat unfair for new adventurers to get a lot less suits of bone armor for their efforts and time.

Logically looking at it, you might conclude that the bone armor SHOULD give dex loss because it is an armor that isn't leather and must weigh something considerable. Well, looking at the armor, you will notice leather on the bone armor so it is partly made out of leather. Also, it isn't covering the whole body, and especially not the back side. Your biceps are exposed and so are the upper parts of your legs and all over the back side.

If nothing is done, I won't be using bone armor anymore, except for maybe the -0 dex bone helm, but this is fine as well. Maybe someone else will find a superior use for bone armor with -13 dex.

I don't think people going around with -0 dex 64 AR invul bone suits is going to be that much of an advantage, and they will be losing their suits no matter what over time if you make bone armor no longer repairable. People might argue that this will turn the game more in the direction of an an item based game or complain that everyone will simply be looking like a skeleton due to possible high demand for magic bone armor. The thing is, these suits will become less widespread over time if they are not repairable unless there are enough hunters to keep filling the shard up with them. Also, if you don't like the looks, you can easily mask the fact that you are wearing bone armor by wearing a robe and switching the helm out for a standard dexxer helm and possibly replacing the gloves with studded gloves for a -1 AR loss, assuming they didn't "nerf" studded leather.

Even with just a -10 dex loss on the bone armor, I can still foresee myself using it on some of my characters. Otherwise, I'd probably stick with either -5 dex loss ringmail and 86-87 dex or -10 dex loss chainmail and 91-92 dex. The reason for as much as 92 dex is because this way you can wear a platemail gorget and not suffer any swing penalty for the -1 dex if you get a clumsy on you while fighting. I don't want to go with -13 dex loss and 94 dex (31 int) as that would only leave me with 20 mana after using recall, which makes for about 1 greater heal and then the possibility of not being able to recall for a while. With 100 str, 33 int, and 92 dex, I can at least recall somewhere and have 23 mana left over for either 2 greater heals or 1 gh and another recall. You can always have a friend or an alt cast gate for you to move around, but even then it is nice to have enough mana to cast 3 level 4 spells so you might as well gate yourself around on an alt and stick with 33+ int. There are all sorts of play styles and that is nice. Another play style would be to go with 100 dex and 25 int with a platemail suit and then gate yourself around on an alt and still be able to cast 2 level 4 spells with up to 75 AR for a nice edge over another solo dexxer. This play style would not be that much of an edge with the -13 dex bone armor, because the bone armor only offers a measly 3 AR improvement over a -10 dex chainmail suit and only a 1 AR improvement over a -11 dex suit that includes a platemail gorget. I also just don't like the thought of having 100 dex on my archers and being forced to constantly use an agility potion in order to fire at a decently fast rate while wearing bone armor. So, for PvM and even PvP without potions, there is the swing/fire rate issue that the bone armor automatically gives you and requires an agility potion to fix.

Didnt read most of this.

But change is fine AS LONG AS THEY reduce leather/studded ar.

6 hp vanq blows to barbed wearing mages is just stupid.

Target closest stun zergs have it easy enough as it is.