∞ CTF: Magic wall, Scoring, Balance and Bug fixes

[wreckognize]

Right now, balance is weighted hugely in favor of the waller, even versus a few dispellers.

I propose the following changes be made to better CTF game balance:

1 second cooldown on casting magic wall after targeting it.

1 event score point per 5 walls

a slight boost for score per kill

also a 5 min cooldown on joining [battles after @quitting an event might be a good idea, to help prevent groups from all trying to get on the same team.

EDIT* Also, add 25 bonus EP for each member of the winning team

EDIT2* Wipe the game scoreboard at the exact moment the game begins, after the waiting period

EDIT3* Make a player unable to pass a flag if his own flag is currently being captured.

EDIT4* Turn the rate of decay inside CTF battleground to 1 second to avoid blocking object spam

 

[Arch Enemy]

Honestly scoring should just be removed entirely from CTF. Scoring makes people prioritize points before the real objectives of the game. It also doesn't even accurately reflect how much of an influence you had on the game.

I do see points being a reason to join CTF for some people, but if you're going to award points, they should only be awarded to the winning team, and everyone should receive the same amount. You want points? Win the ctf. Stop chasing random people around trying to get kills. Stop sitting in the flag room of another team running back and forth over the flag spot continuously while your teammate is in their maze with their flag. Go help him cap like you're supposed to instead of waiting for him to die so you can pick up the flag and get the points. You want points? Win the CTF. That's how it should be.

Do agree with needing to do something about people being able to stack teams so easily, but right now it's pretty easy to just join the same team as your buddies on the first try, so your suggestion wouldn't fix the problem entirely.

 

[wreckognize]

yeah, team stacking kinda ruins the whole, ''only winning team gets points'' theory. Also it doesn't attract as many players when 3/4 of the contestants leave empty handed. I'd be worried about attendance going down if ONLY the winning team got points.

BUT

what if each member of the winning team got an extra 25 EP, on top of individual scores??

I'll add this to the OP, good input. When CTFL league gets implemented, I think winning team only scoring and dropping the individual scores would be great then. Gives people the benefit of being able to plan ahead, and then we don't have to worry about people blaming game mechanics for being stuck on a team of rookies all the time, thus never getting any points.

 

[wreckognize]

Changed suggested wall scoring from 1EP every 10 walls down to 1EP every 5 walls

 

[Swayze]

1 event score point per 5 walls

this has exploit written all over it.


Another exploit ive noticed is passing the flags to eachother. That has to be removed.

 

[wreckognize]

@Swayze 1 point per 5 walls is not bad actually, it's a waste of time to try and exploit it imo.I realize people cast walls in the waiting area, but I think scoring could be wiped at the time the game begins, which would eliminate any exploitation. I will add it to the OP.

I think they did put in a fix for flag passing actually, seems there is a cooldown now on the flag before you can pick it up, so any exploitation is very limited these days. Not sure what else can be done, but I think OP basically fixes it anyways, in the sense that it's a waste of time when you could be getting kills instead and contributing to the win, thus earning more points anyways.

Good input swayze, you handsome mother

edit* just thought of a viable fix, where players can not pass a flag if their own teams flag is not at their base in default position. I will add it to the OP.

 

[wreckognize]

AHH i see now what you mean by exploiting flag passing, @FAMARA was able to get 25 assaults from one single attempt, by staying in red teams base. As soon as he picks up the flag, he drops it so that red defenders will return it so he can pick it up again with zero cooldown.

A COOLDOWN MUST BE ADDED for the time it takes to pick up a returned flag, by any person who drops a flag. At least 30 seconds. In a single game Famara was able to get 120+ points for just plain exploiting. Some people will do anything for profit, it's a shame.

@Adam @eppy @halygon please try to get this fix in asap!

 

[FAMARA]

I didnt exploit anything being able to drop the flag is there for a reason. when im holding the flag im taking 50 damage from explo pots and there was simply no way out of there, so sometimes yes i drop it, and heal up that why i dont die.

I agree flag should have a cooldown. i have seen trophys with much more then 25 assaults.

you need to learn what exploiting is! dropping is there for a reason lol.

exploiting is what you did with the koreans, to get stuff off the dono vendor and the gold sink vendor for free.

so dry your eyes and go cuddle up with your mama everythings ganna be ok.

 

[wreckognize]

Oh please @FAMARA , several people watched as you could have ran out of Red teams base, but instead you just keep running in circles healing, dropping the flag on a loop macro. It's unsportsmanlike, and your team LOST because you didn't even try to capture the flag.

It's outright shameful Famara, that event points system was added to get players to want to play CTF, and now because of you, there are players who want CTF turned off until a fix can be implemented. I only pointed you out because you've been conjecturing me about koreans and vendors classlessly for years now, otherwise I would have not mentioned your name unless asked.

How many times did you think you could get away with this in the first place before someone reported the problem??

Besides, you might have gotten 500 or so event points doing this in the past few days, it's chump change really. But at this point instead of tellin fibs here man the least you could do is apologize to team blue for that last round. If you did, even I would forgive you. Jus saying.

 

[FAMARA]

Oh please @FAMARA , several people watched as you could have ran out of Red teams base, but instead you just keep running in circles healing, dropping the flag on a loop macro. It's unsportsmanlike, and your team LOST because you didn't even try to capture the flag.

It's outright shameful Famara, that event points system was added to get players to want to play CTF, and now because of you, there are players who want CTF turned off until a fix can be implemented. I only pointed you out because you've been conjecturing me about koreans and vendors classlessly for years now, otherwise I would have not mentioned your name unless asked.

you only said my name because you are that kind of person, you spammed at docks you were going to get me banned. you are made because i was made better then you in each and every way =D

no i couldnt get out of the base , if i have chance to capture i capture. that team had some people spam walling. simple as that. yes i stayed alive a long time with the 3 of you dropping on me, but i wouldnt have if i didnt drop the flag. simple as that, there was no loop macro either, i double clicked it in my backpack.

im sure if players want ctf fixed and turned off until so, you are the only one.

i see trophys all over peoples houses with 30 assaults + so if i abused it , half the rest of the server did as well. and long before i came back to play here.

and you and your korean friends did rip off the gold sink and dono vendors thats how you got anything that you have. you have gained nothing since i played on this server. i said it to you, and only you, i did not make a forum post about it, or page gms.

sincerely tho, i am sorry that i am better then you in every way.

But i agree, it would help the ctf if that was changed.

 

[wreckognize]

I spammed at docks that I reported you even before I did or could have lol, I never said I wanted you banned roflmao. nice try tho, just apologize and stop tryna boost your 'rank' in game by cheating. scrub

 

[halygon]

AHH i see now what you mean by exploiting flag passing, @FAMARA was able to get 25 assaults from one single attempt, by staying in red teams base. As soon as he picks up the flag, he drops it so that red defenders will return it so he can pick it up again with zero cooldown.

A COOLDOWN MUST BE ADDED for the time it takes to pick up a returned flag, by any person who drops a flag. At least 30 seconds. In a single game Famara was able to get 120+ points for just plain exploiting. Some people will do anything for profit, it's a shame.

@Adam @eppy @halygon please try to get this fix in asap!

The staff is aware of this method of gaining ctf points already.

 

[wreckognize]

cool, hopefully they're fixing it soon. Kind of puts a damper on the mood when game mechanics promote unsportsmanlike conduct.

ty for the reply on that one

 

[Arch Enemy]

I would be ok with giving the losing teams all a flat rate of points, and giving the winning team some extra flat amount of points. But wreckognize, your example just illustrates that no matter how you implement any sort of variable point system, people will find ways to abuse it. And even if it can't be abused to gain tons of points, it doesn't mean people won't still try to farm points. Maybe it's not worth it to farm points IF you're good at the game, but you know there will still be people who sit in the base and cast wall of stone over and over or do whatever earns them easy points. No matter how you do it, scoring systems only take away from the full potential degree of teamwork needed to win games. It's natural for people to want to see their name high on the scoreboard, but they often end up doing what's in their best interest to get there, rather than what's in the best interest of their team to win the game.

 

[FAMARA]

I spammed at docks that I reported you even before I did or could have lol, I never said I wanted you banned roflmao. nice try tho, just apologize and stop tryna boost your 'rank' in game by cheating. scrub

strandedness telling me to apologize for playing the game, all these comments coming from a guy who wouldn't only take candy from a baby but slap him in the face and take his stroller too if it benefited him.

 

[Karl Sagan]

I like the ideas of making points team based to promote playing the objective instead of point whoring.

Also put an end to the team stacking.

And put a new arena in the mix!

The slap fight I rate a mediocre 6/10. Needs more personal insults and/or all caps.

 

[wreckognize]

I would be ok with giving the losing teams all a flat rate of points, and giving the winning team some extra flat amount of points. But wreckognize, your example just illustrates that no matter how you implement any sort of variable point system, people will find ways to abuse it. And even if it can't be abused to gain tons of points, it doesn't mean people won't still try to farm points. Maybe it's not worth it to farm points IF you're good at the game, but you know there will still be people who sit in the base and cast wall of stone over and over or do whatever earns them easy points. No matter how you do it, scoring systems only take away from the full potential degree of teamwork needed to win games. It's natural for people to want to see their name high on the scoreboard, but they often end up doing what's in their best interest to get there, rather than what's in the best interest of their team to win the game.

That's def true on many levels. For one thing, I netted 170 points last night for 4 captures, and 6 assaults. Compare that to famaras 120 or so points for 0 captures and 25 assaults from the match in question. It's easy to take my word for it that he could have easily slipped out of red's base since I'm well known for my CTF cappin skills, obviously I would know. Some people's ego's are just so overpowering and they just want to be at the top of the board, even if they have to farm themselves to get there.. I just hope it doesn't get too many people bummed out is all, it's not a big deal really ^^

As far as random CTF events go, I don't think any of these fixes are really a huge priority right now. BUT i think like @Karl Sagan has now mentioned, team stacking and unsportsmanlike conduct is a problem and I believe is already taking its toll on attendance, and I worry that without a few minor tweaks, League may not be as HUGE.