A dragon and WW combo makes a tamer virtually impossible to take down solo. My dexer has popped out to attack, been hit by each per and eaten a fire breath, and I'm chugging to live. That doesn't bother me though... Recalling with pets does though. Tamers are plenty powerful: they run the scroll market. My suggestion is to simply remove recall with the pets. Require gate. I think bonding should be dumped totally but I feel this is an alright compromise.
Change pet bonding.
- Thread starter Malcate
- Start date
Zorlac
Journeyman
+1
Panik Homerché
Expert
+1
Maybe make it so Tamers can still Recall with dead pets only, and have to Gate them if/when they're alive?
Maybe make it so Tamers can still Recall with dead pets only, and have to Gate them if/when they're alive?
Messremb
Grandmaster
-1
unless I'm mistaken none of you have tamers, and have no idea what its like. Tamers have there restrictions, and draw backs. have you ever tried to run on foot through MOBs and keep your pets from attacking every rat and or slime in site? removing pets recalling is just an annoyance and makes tamers more of a target for PKs than they already are.
Stop your whining about pet bonding. personally I'm all for them removing pet bonding, if they also go back to the good old days when tamers had no pet caps. as it is pet bonding is the balance to capping the number of pets.
you guys should make tamers and stop demanding nerfs on them.
unless I'm mistaken none of you have tamers, and have no idea what its like. Tamers have there restrictions, and draw backs. have you ever tried to run on foot through MOBs and keep your pets from attacking every rat and or slime in site? removing pets recalling is just an annoyance and makes tamers more of a target for PKs than they already are.
Stop your whining about pet bonding. personally I'm all for them removing pet bonding, if they also go back to the good old days when tamers had no pet caps. as it is pet bonding is the balance to capping the number of pets.
you guys should make tamers and stop demanding nerfs on them.
Garet Jax
Grandmaster
Messremb said:
Messremb
Grandmaster
I know how to farm 
I was using that as an example as to why tamers recall everywhere.
if you gate in and someone is at your spawn then you have to gate to a new spot now your out of mana. if that spot is taken as well you have to sit there, and med before you can move on. its just silly and stupid the only thing this would accomplish is making tamers less affective at making gold and make them easier for PKs. It costs Millions in gold or several weeks to make a tamer. they should be the best money makers. you can already roll a archer bard in 2 days and make almost as much.
If your such a bad PK you cant kill a tamer stop trying, or spend some time as a tamer and learn their weaknesses, instead of demanding nerfs. solo PKs can take a tamer, if they know what they are doing. But no, it should not be easy to do. tamers are usually on foot and have little to know defensive skills that a pretty big target already.
or since it hard to kill High end MOBs should we Nerf them too? :lol:
I was using that as an example as to why tamers recall everywhere. if you gate in and someone is at your spawn then you have to gate to a new spot now your out of mana. if that spot is taken as well you have to sit there, and med before you can move on. its just silly and stupid the only thing this would accomplish is making tamers less affective at making gold and make them easier for PKs. It costs Millions in gold or several weeks to make a tamer. they should be the best money makers. you can already roll a archer bard in 2 days and make almost as much.
If your such a bad PK you cant kill a tamer stop trying, or spend some time as a tamer and learn their weaknesses, instead of demanding nerfs. solo PKs can take a tamer, if they know what they are doing. But no, it should not be easy to do. tamers are usually on foot and have little to know defensive skills that a pretty big target already.
or since it hard to kill High end MOBs should we Nerf them too? :lol:
Panik Homerché
Expert
I'm working on my tamer, this doesn't affect my opinion on this suggestion.
I have an idea what it's like, I hear my Tamer friend QQ about his pets slowing him down and dying all the time. And I'm the one who helps him try to tame higher end pets and retrieve his pets when all else fails.
Tamers have restrictions, and Tamers have obvious benefits that make the trouble of training a Tamer well worth the effort, as far as I know.
I don't see what running through rats and slimes has to do with "Recall vs Gate" as a means of transporting bonded pets.
Which is the intention of this suggestion. Risk vs reward. It's not like Gating was much harder to do and was going to break the way anyone plays their Tamer, unless there are 62.9 Magery Tamers out there, or even worse, 0.0 Runebook-using ones... Besides, one can simply carry a couple Gate Travel scrolls and the only difference will be a slightly longer casting time when time comes to GTFO.
No one's whining, Malcate suggested something, then 2 of us supported his idea. The tone of your post is what's closest to "whining" in this thread, so far.
No one said anything against pet bonding, what was suggested is to change how bonded pets follow their recalling Tamer. It's good to know you're in favor of removing pet bonding, but it's not what this thread is suggesting. I'm pretty sure I saw a thread suggesting that pet bonding be removed, maybe your comment would be at its place there.
This is the "suggestions" forum, not the "demands" forum. No one demanded anything, but someone suggested something. I'm pretty sure you are mature enough to voice your personal opinion without acting condescendingly towards other people. If it's hard to do at first, take deep breaths in. Breath in. Breath out. Then, try again.
(...)
As an Archer Bard, if I recall to a spot and it's taken, recall elsewhere and it's taken again, I have to Meditate, oh... wait... I don't have that skill on my template and wear armor, so I have to sit still and wait. its just silly and stupid, give me infinite mana! NAO! Seriously, how long does it take a 100INT / GM Med toon to med 40 mana up and how much time does it take for a dexer to regen 11 mana? Do the math and come back with a different argument.
They are...? And this suggestion wouldn't change that.
If you're assuming I don't play a Tamer, I'll assume you don't play your Archer Bard much either. There's no way a Archer Bard can even make half the money a good Tamer can make.
Considering all one needs to be a Tamer is Taming, Lore, Vet, Magery and Meditation, this leaves 200 skill points for defensive skills. If you decide to pick up Bard skills instead (that's what my friend runs) and make yourself vulnerable to PKs, that's your decision, but don't claim Tamers are easy to PK because you play yourself in PvE mode only. Tamers with the right template, played by players with minimal skill are virtually impossible to kill. Besides, this suggestion wouldn't prevent them from recalling away, so they wouldn't lose survivability, only they'd have to decide if they want to gate themselves and their pets out to safety, or sacrifice their pets to save their own life by recalling.
Huh? What mob is hard to kill? Do we play the same game? Once a night, our group runs into a situation where our Tamer feels it would be best if we skipped a particular mob and move to another area instead, usually a Balron/Ancient Wyrm Paragon.
Messremb
Grandmaster
LOL, maybe when you finish you tamer you will understand. removing pet recall would drastically reduce the income of tamers. and there was some definite QQ about how hard tamers are to kill in the OP.
Running on foot through MOBs has to do with the difference between other classes and tamers. They have difficulty with that, other classes do not, thus why they recall everywhere.
this is the 3rd such post I have seen regarding pet bonding and asking for it to be nerfed also read the original post. it mentions removing pet bonding.
your post about condescension is rather hilarious when one looks at the irony, well done. :lol:
I have had an archer bard but I dropped him once I finished my tamer. on an archer bard you can run to different locations in the dungeon. tamers can try but will have major issues getting around junk MOBs. and if your archer bard is making half what my tamer does you need to learn better farming spots. I made almost as much with my archer bard as I do now.
with a proper understanding of how pet control works and the right circumstances (most times you find a tamer in a dungeon are the right circumstances) it is not that difficult to kill a tamer. there are plenty of PKs out there already who do it. Just cause you don't know how does not mean we need to make it easier for you.
my last comment was sarcastic... I guess you missed that.
Running on foot through MOBs has to do with the difference between other classes and tamers. They have difficulty with that, other classes do not, thus why they recall everywhere.
this is the 3rd such post I have seen regarding pet bonding and asking for it to be nerfed also read the original post. it mentions removing pet bonding.
your post about condescension is rather hilarious when one looks at the irony, well done. :lol:
I have had an archer bard but I dropped him once I finished my tamer. on an archer bard you can run to different locations in the dungeon. tamers can try but will have major issues getting around junk MOBs. and if your archer bard is making half what my tamer does you need to learn better farming spots. I made almost as much with my archer bard as I do now.
with a proper understanding of how pet control works and the right circumstances (most times you find a tamer in a dungeon are the right circumstances) it is not that difficult to kill a tamer. there are plenty of PKs out there already who do it. Just cause you don't know how does not mean we need to make it easier for you.
my last comment was sarcastic... I guess you missed that.
The Grixxitt
Apprentice
This thread has all the understanding of a trammy crying to nerf PvP
Panik Homerché
Expert
Have you read my earlier post? Explain to me how having to cast 3 gates in a row for a GM Mage/Meditation toon with 100 INT is supposed to be more troublesome than casting 3 recalls in a row for a Dexer with 25 INT and 0 Med.
But this suggestion has to do with Tamers using gates instead of recalls, thus, this is irrelevant, unless you're somehow implying that Tamers would walk more if that suggestion was implemented, which I doubt. Right now, you recall from point "A" to point "B", if this suggestion is implemented, you'll gate from point "A" to point "B", so what has aggroing mobs while walking got to do with anything? Instead of "recalling everywhere", they'll "gate everywhere", not "walk everywhere".
Again, this suggestion doesn't ask for pet bonding to be nerfed, it asks for pet travel to be nerfed. Those are 2 very different concepts, to me.
I never give more respect to people, than the respect they give to others.
Lies. And condescendance. Refreshing. If you can't make double what I make on my Archer Bard, you're the one who needs to learn to play your Tamer. See how this works both ways and is anything but constructive?
I never said I didn't know how to kill a Tamer, again, you're assuming whatever you please to "prove" your point, a point which is completely irrelevant to the current discussion.
Yes, I thought we were having a serious and constructive discussion, but I was clearly wrong. My bad.
Messremb
Grandmaster
Malcate said:
In a 1v1 no outside influences, even a provo tamer wins. the problem is that's not how PKs fight. when the above tamers pets are being swarmed with MOBs any decent PK can kill them no matter what the tamers skills are. yes the above template has better PK survivability but, they are still on foot and reliant on their pets.
Tamers are fine as they are. its hard enough to GM that there are still relatively few tamers, and they are not ridiculously OP there are plenty of MOBs that a solo tamer still cant handle, and plenty of PKs who, rather than asking for changes, have found ways to kill them.
Messremb
Grandmaster
The fact that you don't see the relevance confirms that you don't know what you are talking about.
Let me try one last time.
An archer bard recalls in and sees someone else at the spawn. he can then recall to a new dungeon, or run to another spawn in the same dungeon with little difficulty.
Tamer recalls in, spawn taken, he can then recall to new spot, or try and drag his pets through junk spawn to get to another location in the same dungeon.
Understand now?
Call my use of an archer bard a lie if you want. I'm not here to prove anything to you.
PKing tamers has huge relevance to this topic as that is the reason the OP wants them nerfed.
Perhaps you should realize I was responding to 3 people at one time, and not every word I said was in reference to your statement?
Let me try one last time.
An archer bard recalls in and sees someone else at the spawn. he can then recall to a new dungeon, or run to another spawn in the same dungeon with little difficulty.
Tamer recalls in, spawn taken, he can then recall to new spot, or try and drag his pets through junk spawn to get to another location in the same dungeon.
Understand now?
Call my use of an archer bard a lie if you want. I'm not here to prove anything to you.
PKing tamers has huge relevance to this topic as that is the reason the OP wants them nerfed.
Perhaps you should realize I was responding to 3 people at one time, and not every word I said was in reference to your statement?
Panik Homerché
Expert
Messremb said:
Or don't drag his pets, just stand still and Med up, then Gate where he would Recall, the way it works under the current system.
Understand now? Your example has you playing differently (ie.: moving your pets through trash) when you really don't have to change anything, except pause more often to Med up.
Actually, yes. You made the claim that Archer/Bards made almost as much money as Tamers (a claim that is pretty vague, by the way, how much is "almost as much"?), so the burden of proof is on you, initially. I know for a fact that a Bard/Tamer template running a fresh route can plow through the spawns way faster than any Bard/Archer could. How can you even compare the firepower of a single Archer with a White Wyrm's and a Dragon's combined firepower?
Yes, PKing Tamers has relevance, but the fact that you feel Tamers are at a disadvantage against PKs is merely an opinion, one that is far from the truth. As was mentioned, Tamers have room to add 2 skills to their base template, which is enough flexibility to make one's Tamer "PK proof", if he chooses so. The fact that you might have decided to use different skills, which make you an easier target for PKs doesn't make all Tamers easy targets.
When that's the case and you feel what I'm writing is based on a misunderstanding, just say so, how am I to know, if you don't tell me? Your posts don't make it very clear who you're replying to.
I see we're approaching this suggestion with completely different perspectives, which means there's no way we'll agree. I actually agree that I'd have to finish my Tamer to understand your perspective, I see this as a very slight "nerf", which would have Tamers waste 15 seconds while they Meditate, once in a while, while you seem to claim it would somehow break the template and make Tamers less profitable. So let's just leave it at that, unless you have something to add, obviously. I certainly said everything I had to say here.
No hard feelings.
[colombo]Actually, one last thing, Mr. Messremb. How can you be in favor of removing pet bonding, but against the idea of having to Gate your pets around? Wouldn't removing pet bonding altogether imply that Tamers would have to Gate their pets around?[/colombo]
Messremb
Grandmaster
once again the point was tamers lack the ability to run through MOBs to get places thus gating and recalling are the only viable option for farming. gating uses almost 4 times as much mana as recalling and would require tamers to stand around meditating in order to do there farming. this alone would not break the template simply limit the amount of gold they can make an hour.
my archer bard made between 50-70k and hour if there was no competition.
my tamer makes 60-80k an hour. perhaps if some of the nicer money making spawns were not so heavily farmed, and PKed, I could make 100k but I have only hit that mark once.
as you have no tamer you do not know if PKs attack tamers and if they are vulnerable. when you GM, you will find out.
as to misunderstandings, I apologies, I assumed you had read the whole thread you were agreeing with.
You see it as a slight nerf because it does not affect you. You don't know how much griefing tamers get. Ever hear of pet boating or traping? or your pets get left behind, and the PK camps them and kills you every time you try to get them?
You don't have any idea of the repercussions of this change, yet weigh in as though you understand.
as to pet bonding. I am ok with it if they go back to the way it was before pet bonding, when there was no pet cap. you think tamers are OP now should have seen when you could have 20 drags running behind you. :lol: the good old days. (admittedly taming was even more difficult in those days, but still)
my archer bard made between 50-70k and hour if there was no competition.
my tamer makes 60-80k an hour. perhaps if some of the nicer money making spawns were not so heavily farmed, and PKed, I could make 100k but I have only hit that mark once.
as you have no tamer you do not know if PKs attack tamers and if they are vulnerable. when you GM, you will find out.
as to misunderstandings, I apologies, I assumed you had read the whole thread you were agreeing with.
You see it as a slight nerf because it does not affect you. You don't know how much griefing tamers get. Ever hear of pet boating or traping? or your pets get left behind, and the PK camps them and kills you every time you try to get them?
You don't have any idea of the repercussions of this change, yet weigh in as though you understand.
as to pet bonding. I am ok with it if they go back to the way it was before pet bonding, when there was no pet cap. you think tamers are OP now should have seen when you could have 20 drags running behind you. :lol: the good old days. (admittedly taming was even more difficult in those days, but still)
Tamers are fine as they are.
if you dont know how to kill tamers.
Then recall out and search for a difference Target.
So easy there is no need to kill a tamer if you dont know how.
its like you asking for a cheat for a game you cant handle.
A dexxer as Slayer weapons .
A dexxer is stronger as a mage.
and now you want nerf Tamers ?!?!?!?!. Really ?
Use Forum search and see the whole Posts about it.
And dont open every Month a new Thread about it.
Tamers are not a day maked Template. They cost alot, Time and Money. They have no Horse so why should they easy to kill ?
Next Question comes: if they can nerf the dragons in destard because they firebreathing instant and they cant kill the people in Destard.
Maybe you ask Shane if he can give ya "God mode" so you can kill all.
if you dont know how to kill tamers.
Then recall out and search for a difference Target.
So easy there is no need to kill a tamer if you dont know how.
its like you asking for a cheat for a game you cant handle.
A dexxer as Slayer weapons .
A dexxer is stronger as a mage.
and now you want nerf Tamers ?!?!?!?!. Really ?
Use Forum search and see the whole Posts about it.
And dont open every Month a new Thread about it.
Tamers are not a day maked Template. They cost alot, Time and Money. They have no Horse so why should they easy to kill ?
Next Question comes: if they can nerf the dragons in destard because they firebreathing instant and they cant kill the people in Destard.
Maybe you ask Shane if he can give ya "God mode" so you can kill all.
Panik Homerché
Expert
Messremb said:
Right, because if you're not a woman, you don't know women have a vagina, because sticking your dick in it isn't proof or anything. That's why I keep saying you're so condescending, you keep assuming that I couldn't possibly know shit about nothing, while you know it all because you've grinded the grind. That's a VERY stupid assumption when we're talking about a 15+ year old game. I know what having a Tamer is like, contrary to your baseless assumptions.
Keep assuming things... That's why this discussion is going nowhere.
Again, it does affect me as I'm training my Tamer, and I play with a Tamer all the time so I know how much griefing they get, I don't understand why you keep assuming you detain knowledge others couldn't possibly have themselves. Out of all the absurd assumptions you've made throughout this thread, that has to be the worst. The game is 15+ years old, I play it since 1997, I have a vague idea how the game goes and who gets griefed and for what reasons.
Yes I do. You'd have to Med up more often and generally manage your mana more intelligently, though I understand that's too much to ask from someone like you. It would be like Taming has been on most shards I played, so I have a pretty good idea what that's like.
Again, you're dumb to assume you know more about this game than anyone else.