Snickle
Grandmaster
The thing is, those guys spend hours to stealth around for 10k profit if theyre lucky. I make 10k in 5 minutes with Balron bow and Provo
Stealth not classic. Would you like to see it gone?
- Thread starter Chop
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FingersFinn
Grandmaster
And this is the final point. Thieves normally don't make what normal people do. Sometimes you get lucky, other times you just get ghosted over and over.
OP my ass.
I have had some pretty good times playing my thief, and honestly unless you get really lucky you don't get all that much for the time that goes into it. Normally if you get caught you have 0 defense, not to mention that thieves can't take murder counts or they get suspended from the thieves guild.
Chop
Journeyman
No one said OP once in this thread but you
And I highly doubt a thief is your only character. You most likely have a tamer or provo mage for making coin. Most people play thieves when bored and they wanna borderline grief people. Unless your a rare hunter.
I am just saying IMO yes that's In my opinion I think thieves are buff here **with stealth** and can pretty damn easily escape with some pretty big ticket items like high end weapons or skill scrolls (Like I have heard many thieves bragging about lots on this shard) and dexxers like myself that don't run enough magery to reveal or waste skill points in detect/tracking are pretty helpless to them. Yet you get a 100% working template that you don't need to take mostly useless skills like detect/track on.
Once again those game mechanics I mentioned above were part of stealth for a reason. 8 steps / skill delay
Karl Sagan
Grandmaster
No one said OP once in this thread but you
And I highly doubt a thief is your only character. You most likely have a tamer or provo mage for making coin. Most people play thieves when bored and they wanna borderline grief people. Unless your a rare hunter.
I am just saying IMO yes that's In my opinion I think thieves are buff here **with stealth** and can pretty damn easily escape with some pretty big ticket items like high end weapons or skill scrolls (Like I have heard many thieves bragging about lots on this shard) and dexxers like myself that don't run enough magery to reveal or waste skill points in detect/tracking are pretty helpless to them. Yet you get a 100% working template that you don't need to take mostly useless skills like detect/track on.
Once again those game mechanics I mentioned above were part of stealth for a reason. 8 steps / skill delay
So you don't have an attack nearest hotkey, you don't run magery, and you won't take track/detect (or even just run a tracking macro on loop) and because of these things you are 'helpless' against an unarmed thief.
And your proposed solution is to nerf an entire set of classes to compensate for your unwillingness to take a skill to counter stealth.
Well certainly is a first...
AaronRodgers
Master
I'm a miner, and having hiding/stealth to avoid pks that dont use tracking has allowed me to mine to my heart's content for almost two years now while being pked maybe 5 times. Stealth is awesome and anyone who devotes the skill points to benefit from it should continue to do so. Stop trying to nerf the countless other stealth applications because you had something stolen from you.
Chop
Journeyman
This post just kind of helps my point. 2 years and pk'd 5 times. Gee thank's stealth for being so damn good! Maybe to good? I run a stealth miner as well and have NEVER been pk'd on my miner. Basically 0 risk if you play a stealther right and that aint hard.
And Carl... Those changes I bring to light were in stealth to begin with(Except the cant stealth while criminal idea), they were just taken out here on UOF. Only one need be re-implemented really though to balance it out *IMO*. Hardly a huge deal unless you have grown accustomed to the trammel style no risk safe cozy feeling it accommodates here.
Also i tried making an attack nearest macro in razor but couldn't for the life of me get it to work. But then again I tend to play HOW THE GAME WAS MADE TO BE PLAYED. Without all those razor macros and steam/sallos advantages or cheat engines as i call em. But that's how I choose to play and if I changed that up and started relying on Razor/steam/sallos I would quickly lose interest in this shard. Still doesn't change the fact stealth shouldn't be such a easy risk avoider.
I have voiced my opinion and this is my last post in this thread. Thanks for coming out folks!
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Most pks now run a tracking macro and can find stealthers with little effort. For a crafter to stealth mine you have to give up two skills. His sacrifice rewards him with virtually uninterrupted mining. Although it would be suspicious to see a tamed pack animal walking in a mine all alone.
FingersFinn
Grandmaster
No one said OP once in this thread but you
And I highly doubt a thief is your only character. You most likely have a tamer or provo mage for making coin. Most people play thieves when bored and they wanna borderline grief people. Unless your a rare hunter.
I am just saying IMO yes that's In my opinion I think thieves are buff here **with stealth** and can pretty damn easily escape with some pretty big ticket items like high end weapons or skill scrolls (Like I have heard many thieves bragging about lots on this shard) and dexxers like myself that don't run enough magery to reveal or waste skill points in detect/tracking are pretty helpless to them. Yet you get a 100% working template that you don't need to take mostly useless skills like detect/track on.
Once again those game mechanics I mentioned above were part of stealth for a reason. 8 steps / skill delay
You didn't need to say "stealth is OP" because it has been insinuated since the beginning of the thread.
I completely understand your point and am not berating you because of your suggestion. I simply want to try and get across the fact that thieves are way of playing the game. Nothing more, nothing less. Same as a tamer, crafter, etc.
Again, I want to point to a very common complaint PvMers make when accosted by PKs: "it's so unfair, my template doesn't allow a fair fight!"
The answer from @halygon is always " you made the decision to have your template without any PK defense"
The same argument applies here because I've been wrecked on my thief many times. When your only defense is to hide and stealth away, I think that's fair. As I noted before, many, many templates have magery included and after 2 reveals are cast, only a skilled thief will still get away. There's a reason there are guides out there for thieves outlining how to use the environment and such. Even with stealth the way it is, thieves are sitting ducks in 95% of situations. You happen to fall into the 5% where your template has no defense against one.
Here's an idea.. Multi-client and bring in an alt to babysit your LJ/Dexxer? Ever try this tactic? Almost everyone else does.
EDIT: Faytality is also correct. Lots of PKs now run tracking for easier location of kills. Hiding and stealth will not save you.
Messremb
Grandmaster
Wow, people need to stop denying the truth, stealth here is unbelievably OP, and if you are getting caught 95% you are doing it wrong.
even though stealth is OP, I am against nerfing it. some skills will always be OP in UO that's just the way it is, and thieves can be avoided if you are cautious.
also, I just want to point out that saying its the victims fault he got something stolen from him is a form of victim blaming and is not a valid argument.
anyways, OP quit complaining and make a thief hunter if you want some revenge. anyone saying stealth isn't OP pull your head out your ass and at least admit that you take advantage of one of the most OP skills in UO.
even though stealth is OP, I am against nerfing it. some skills will always be OP in UO that's just the way it is, and thieves can be avoided if you are cautious.
also, I just want to point out that saying its the victims fault he got something stolen from him is a form of victim blaming and is not a valid argument.
anyways, OP quit complaining and make a thief hunter if you want some revenge. anyone saying stealth isn't OP pull your head out your ass and at least admit that you take advantage of one of the most OP skills in UO.
FingersFinn
Grandmaster
You refuted your own comment (noted in yellow). Thieves can be thwarted with caution. Stealth is a tactic but there are ways to counter it. Just ask the multitude of PKs who run with tracking. "Blaming the victim" is a valid argument as it is used all the damn time here in the forums (example: blaming the PvMer it's their fault for not taking any kind of PK defense). Does it make it right? Who knows. Not likely, but feedback is feedback. A thieve's only protection is stealth and some ingenuity in their practice. They can't kill players (making anything but a disarm or stun thief moot), can't give counts, (most) don't wear armor, are often 1-2 hit kills, and that's that. This "OP stealth" is balanced with the squishiest character type in the entire game. Trust me, I've thought about giving up stealth and rearranging some skills to be more of a fighter/thief.. but the first time you actually stand and kill another player? Oops, suspended from the thieves guild! No thievery for you for a while! It's a pigeon-holed class that relies on some measure of defense.
Some thieves don't even use stealth that much.
King Dingaling
Grandmaster
i cant believe this argument dragged on this long. ....
u think just because i hit stealth and get away is op...but there is an actual skill that goes into. sure..if i wanna troll around popping exp pouches while stealth, that takes no skill whatsoever. there are delay timers and actual know how to run up and steal something undetected and get away without dieing.
its like complaining that you have to manually open ur recall book, flip to the page, and click on recall if u want to get away from pk. please tell me u dont this too..?
u think just because i hit stealth and get away is op...but there is an actual skill that goes into. sure..if i wanna troll around popping exp pouches while stealth, that takes no skill whatsoever. there are delay timers and actual know how to run up and steal something undetected and get away without dieing.
its like complaining that you have to manually open ur recall book, flip to the page, and click on recall if u want to get away from pk. please tell me u dont this too..?
thestand
Grandmaster
You don't need a "macro" . You set a hotkey for target closest and another hotkey for attack last target. Keep them close together(on your mouse buttons is good).
Messremb
Grandmaster
You refuted your own comment (noted in yellow). Thieves can be thwarted with caution. Stealth is a tactic but there are ways to counter it. Just ask the multitude of PKs who run with tracking. "Blaming the victim" is a valid argument as it is used all the damn time here in the forums (example: blaming the PvMer it's their fault for not taking any kind of PK defense). Does it make it right? Who knows. Not likely, but feedback is feedback. A thieve's only protection is stealth and some ingenuity in their practice. They can't kill players (making anything but a disarm or stun thief moot), can't give counts, (most) don't wear armor, are often 1-2 hit kills, and that's that. This "OP stealth" is balanced with the squishiest character type in the entire game. Trust me, I've thought about giving up stealth and rearranging some skills to be more of a fighter/thief.. but the first time you actually stand and kill another player? Oops, suspended from the thieves guild! No thievery for you for a while! It's a pigeon-holed class that relies on some measure of defense.
Some thieves don't even use stealth that much.
Blaming the victim is most commonly used by racists, rapists, and spousal abusers. If you want to jump on that boat be my guest. Also, I don't support victim blaming for pking either. And my argument does not refute itself. Just because there are ways to avoid it does not make it the fault of the ill prepared individual.
Also, victim blaming can be used to say it's a thieves fault that they play a squishy build. You can make a 5x thief and wreck people.
I use my stealth archer to kill people all the time. stealth makes you practically unkillable if you play with even the slightest competency.
Also, the best thieves don't even need stealth or stealing.
FingersFinn
Grandmaster
Completely agree. It IS the thieve's decision in playing the build and having no defense. Just like it IS the PvMer's decision to run with no res spells and/or wrestling in making a farmer, then get revealed out of hiding and rocked if they can't/don't recall fast enough. You are right about this.
This form of "victim blaming" is nothing like your out-of-context comparison. It is more of a "well, do something about it. Change tactics, etc". It is, I suppose, the way in which one looks at it. I don't doubt you wreck all the time on your stealth archer. I'm sure people grab more stuff off dead folks than merely stealing it. But in both of your examples you didn't mention thievery, which the whole stealth argument is based on. Regardless, I do agree that the best thieves don't even need hiding or stealth. I'll give ya that
This form of "victim blaming" is nothing like your out-of-context comparison. It is more of a "well, do something about it. Change tactics, etc". It is, I suppose, the way in which one looks at it. I don't doubt you wreck all the time on your stealth archer. I'm sure people grab more stuff off dead folks than merely stealing it. But in both of your examples you didn't mention thievery, which the whole stealth argument is based on. Regardless, I do agree that the best thieves don't even need hiding or stealth. I'll give ya that
Shucky
Novice
Trammie.
FingersFinn
Grandmaster
Me? Nah. I prefer "Tranny".
BLANDERMANIA
Novice
I just GM'd Stealth on a char who also has GM Hiding. I can only move 4 steps even while naked??? Unless I'm missing something, Stealth is way-nerfed here. I don't remember exact number but I think you could go roughly 8 steps on OSI even if not GM.
halygon
Grandmaster
Holy Necro Batman!
I can only assume that something is being done wrong. I have tested my own stealther and it works flawlessly.
It works like this on UOF:
1. Hide
3. Move around
3. You auto-re-stealth so you never have to use the skill stealth.
Non-UOF Stealth works like this:
1. Hide
2. Use Stealth Skill
3. Move around for 11 steps (maybe a couple more?)
4. Stop moving
5. Use stealth skill again
6. Repeat from step #2.
We basically just made it user-friendly (and viable).
Locking thread to prevent further necrosis.
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