List of important changes for PVP.

The PVP mechanics are in need of a few small tweaks/changes to become more enjoyable.

The random explosion timer: This takes away any real skill when healing syncs. It was introduced to stop macro syncs, but all this does is make auto heals more effective, and create clunky group fights. Your average player WILL NOT heal a sync, whether it's delayed explosion or not. Good syncs and good heals are the essence of group fighting. This server in it's current state doesn't allow either. ADDED.
(Note for staff: Aga has mentioned flamestrike has an additional delay. If explosion becomes non randomized, the flamestrike delay will have to be shortened to allow the spells to hit closer together when syncing.)

EV's: These things are just horrible. They move almost as fast as a player, constantly poison and hit extremely fast. A single EV takes one player out of the fight and onto dispel duty, which is no fun for anybody. I believe Adam argued that they are mages #1 source of damage at champ spawns, which may be true, but they don't need to be fighter jets when attacking players as well.

Stamina loss when redlined: We currently have; infinite stamina mounts, no bola's and no player stamina loss. The ability to run endlessly is a massive problem, anyone who PVP's will agree. Adding stamina loss when a player is below, say 10%, will help cure this issue. Redlining your opponent and then having them zoom off into the distance with no way of stopping them is ridiculous. ADDED. Currently being added for factioners only.

Stacked Pots: This has been brought up multiple times, it allows you to restock off your opponents on the fly which promotes sustained PVP. Many fights are ended because one side is forced to run home and restock. Not allowing stacked potions to be locked down or secured will keep the keg and butler just as useful, and make fielding more enjoyable. ADDED. Note, they don't stack on corpses however.

Spell damage and Timing: Lower circle spells deal extremely low damage, or are resisted too heavily. Spells like magic arrow, harm and lightning are the go to finishing spells on a low health opponent. They are often not enough to finish the target. Tiny damage on the low circle spells combined with no stamina loss makes escaping too easy. Magic arrow for example, often deals 1 damage and has a large delay, making it useless for anything except disrupting.

Defensive Wrestle: This is plain broken. If you attempt to punch while casting a spell, your punch will be invisible and wasted. You will never actually perform the action and will have to wait a few seconds for your next punch to ready.
Another problem with the defensive wrestle, is the bizarre chance of being hit while casting. Attempting to cast infront of a dexxer is almost guaranteed to get you disrupted. This makes fighting outnumbered harder than it should be, and in some cases impossible. Not to mention extremely frustrating. ADDED. You can now punch while casting. Havn't tested defensive wrestle while casting yet.

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Less important additions that would be appreciated:


Not so useless mounts: Plain old mounts like horses are completely useless at the moment. Adding the ability to remount lesser mounts (horses, llamas, beetles, etc) who are combat flagged, would give them a purpose. These mounts can be used to block tiles and disrupt mages, which is very fun/skillful tactic to use. Obviously this change shouldn't apply to mares. ADDED.

Flag System: If you flag a blue while you're blue, and attempt to throw an explosion potion at them, it will not do any damage. However, if they throw a pot at you, it will deal damage.

It makes sense that explo pots should damage anyone you have recently been in combat with.

Random expl timer is meh, not sure I care either way.

The rest of your message is not really in keeping with the apparent values of the shard. In particular, with stamina changes, PvP templates would go from 50% alchy macers to 95%. Boring. You already force people to go through plenty of refresh if you keep nailing them.

Random explo timer: Not sure I agree, yes it makes auto heal work more often, but, if you got rid of it, you'd have every newbie and his dog perfect syncing. What's better, every newbie gets a free heal or every newbie gets a free sync? Free heal seems to have much less gamebreaking potential..

EV's: You didn't say a potential fix, but you seem to be aiming at making them move slower. You basically want to nerf them so that you can also nerf horse stamina, all because nerfing these things help your playstyle. We've been over this before I thought? Why keep bringing it up? You're just the vocal minority on many of these issues.

Discrete said:

It makes sense that explo pots should damage anyone you have recently been in combat with.

Random expl timer is meh, not sure I care either way.

The rest of your message is not really in keeping with the apparent values of the shard. In particular, with stamina changes, PvP templates would go from 50% alchy macers to 95%. Boring. You already force people to go through plenty of refresh if you keep nailing them.

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The stamina loss was for when a person is under 10%. If you redline someone as mage and they run, you cannot finish them. If stamina loss is added they won't be able to dash off screen faster than you can cast a finishing spell in most cases.

Macers will still be the same. Weapons have a delay between swings, giving you plenty of time to mini heal/heal pot or chug a refresh and create some space. This change will benefit mages more than anything.

wreckognize said:

Random explo timer: Not sure I agree, yes it makes auto heal work more often, but, if you got rid of it, you'd have every newbie and his dog perfect syncing. What's better, every newbie gets a free heal or every newbie gets a free sync? Free heal seems to have much less gamebreaking potential..

EV's: You didn't say a potential fix, but you seem to be aiming at making them move slower. You basically want to nerf them so that you can also nerf horse stamina, all because nerfing these things help your playstyle. We've been over this before I thought? Why keep bringing it up? You're just the vocal minority on many of these issues.

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My argument is that random noobies cannot and will not heal syncs regardless. No sync is perfect, they are all healable and that's where the skill comes into play. I don't believe you are able to journal sync on this server, so even if some people decide to make delayed EB's to hit almost perfect with their explosion, they still have to press their hotkey at the right time to sync.

Here is an entire thread about the EV argument. http://www.uoforum.com/threads/tone-down-energy-vortexes-evs.47230/ The thread contains multiple PVPers in agreement with a change. A potential fix would be to lower their speed against players. I also never said nerf horse stamina in this thread. Your playstyle is to cast EV's from your house, you don't want nerfs because it won't be as viable anymore. Should we cater for a single person and his attempt at 'trolling'?

You've got my vote for removing the explosion delay, I actually think it would be good to run a ~two month trial of having it removed at this time.

Stop suggesting that my 'playstyle is' anything specific kid; it's annoying. Everyone knows I sling a little shit on the field from time to time just to get the bluesquad rolling. I've always tried to entertain the blues so that they would roll in bigger packs and be tactical, that way me and my boys are able to get the most challenge out of them as we can. I've hardly spent enough time doing it to consider it my 'playstyle'

That said I agree with UOF's current 0 stam loss when redlined because it's user friendly, something that is important to have if you want to see new players turnt pvper class during their time here. The more established players get, the more likely they are to enjoy their time here and want to come around more often. If you had it your way, everyone would be stunned, unable to move for whatever reason, and pegged off with high powered arrows to conserve mana while you swim through a pool of energy vortexes. POWER. People remember being walked on too, why do you think hyb hasn't seen a new player in years??

wreckognize said:

You've got my vote for removing the explosion delay, I actually think it would be good to run a ~two month trial of having it removed at this time.

Stop suggesting that my 'playstyle is' anything specific kid; it's annoying. Everyone knows I sling a little shit on the field from time to time just to get the bluesquad rolling. I've always tried to entertain the blues so that they would roll in bigger packs and be tactical, that way me and my boys are able to get the most challenge out of them as we can. I've hardly spent enough time doing it to consider it my 'playstyle'

That said I agree with UOF's current 0 stam loss when redlined because it's user friendly, something that is important to have if you want to see new players turnt pvper class during their time here. The more established players get, the more likely they are to enjoy their time here and want to come around more often. If you had it your way, everyone would be stunned, unable to move for whatever reason, and pegged off with high powered arrows to conserve mana while you swim through a pool of energy vortexes. POWER. People remember being walked on too, why do you think hyb hasn't seen a new player in years??

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I'm glad we agree on something.

You said nerfing EV's would help my playstyle. I assume you are basing that comment on how you've seen me play, I returned the favor.

Players need to learn the tricks of the game if they want to have any success. Carrying potions and pouches is something you learn pretty quickly. Eating food or drinking a refresh potion refills your stamina, that's all they need to know. We have 'user friendly' stamina mechanics in place; (infinite horse stam and infinite player running stam). All of these things combined is far too much.

Some good suggestions (redline stamina, evs, explo timer, pots, wrestle). However, I have to disagree about harm dmg, since it is good enough. You just have to be close. Harm is one of the most essential spells in 5x duels and works just fine. I also believe magic arrow dmg has been changed recently. I think it makes a little more dmg now (not as much as on uog though).

Also, I like lighting as it is. If its dmg was bigger, there should be delay. Right now lighting hits instantly, so it is very useful combo and finishing spell. One of my fav spells on UOF.

I would like to see the same housing rules for reds, greys and blues as we have in factions. Once you flag, you shouldn't be able to house hide.

the EV cry is ridic.. dispell that shit foo

Jani said:

Some good suggestions. However, I have to disagree about harm dmg, since it is good enough. You just have to be close. Harm is one of the most essential spells in 5x duels and works just fine. I also believe magic arrow dmg has been changed recently. I think it makes a little more dmg now (not as much as on uog though).

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I know how harm works, it might be an exception to the other low circle spells. It's still a very situational finishing spell. Good luck using harm to finish someone who isn't stunned with no redline stam loss. The damage of magic arrow and lightning are the real problem. Lightning is resisted far too often and is almost a waste of time/mana. I think the lower spells are balanced around 5x at the moment. Every experienced 5xers I've seen says they dislike it here, which makes the current damages and timings even more odd.

"Defensive Wrestle: This is plain broken. If you attempt to punch while casting a spell, your punch will be invisible and wasted. You will never actually perform the action and will have to wait a few seconds for your next punch to ready.
Another problem with the defensive wrestle, is the bizarre chance of being hit while casting. Attempting to cast infront of a dexxer is almost guaranteed to get you disrupted. This makes fighting outnumbered harder than it should be, and in some cases impossible. Not to mention extremely frustrating"
I don't believe you ever had free casting just because you had wrestling. It just increases your chance to not be disrupted. It definitely makes a huge difference when comparing it to a character with no defensive bonus. Its the same bonus you receive from having both anatomy and eval in your template. Also, it would be impossible for a straight dexxor to ever beat a mage if you couldn't disrupt they're casts. Their only defensive option would be to off screen.
"Flag System: If you flag a blue while you're blue, and attempt to throw an explosion potion at them, it will not do any damage. However, if they throw a pot at you, it will deal damage"
^^^^ that definitely needs a fix^^^^
The random explosion timer: This takes away any real skill when healing syncs. It was introduced to stop macro syncs, but all this does is make auto heals more effective, and create clunky group fights. Your average player WILL NOT heal a sync, whether it's delayed explosion or not. Good syncs and good heals are the essence of group fighting. This server in it's current state doesn't allow either.
I would love to have the random explosion timer removed but that would make macro pot throwing run rampant. It would make pvp very frustrating if every nub alchy dexxor always landed a pot in open field. But, I could pull my lumberjacking alchy dexxor out for some some fun.

Bahramyou said:

I would love to have the random explosion timer removed but that would make macro pot throwing run rampant. It would make pvp very frustrating if every nub alchy dexxor always landed a pot in open field. But, I could pull my lumberjacking alchy dexxor out for some some fun.

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Bahramyou said:

"Defensive Wrestle: This is plain broken. If you attempt to punch while casting a spell, your punch will be invisible and wasted. You will never actually perform the action and will have to wait a few seconds for your next punch to ready.
Another problem with the defensive wrestle, is the bizarre chance of being hit while casting. Attempting to cast infront of a dexxer is almost guaranteed to get you disrupted. This makes fighting outnumbered harder than it should be, and in some cases impossible. Not to mention extremely frustrating"
I don't believe you ever had free casting just because you had wrestling. It just increases your chance to not be disrupted. It definitely makes a huge difference when comparing it to a character with no defensive bonus. Its the same bonus you receive from having both anatomy and eval in your template. Also, it would be impossible for a straight dexxor to ever beat a mage if you couldn't disrupt they're casts. Their only defensive option would be to off screen.
"Flag System: If you flag a blue while you're blue, and attempt to throw an explosion potion at them, it will not do any damage. However, if they throw a pot at you, it will deal damage"
^^^^ that definitely needs a fix^^^^
The random explosion timer: This takes away any real skill when healing syncs. It was introduced to stop macro syncs, but all this does is make auto heals more effective, and create clunky group fights. Your average player WILL NOT heal a sync, whether it's delayed explosion or not. Good syncs and good heals are the essence of group fighting. This server in it's current state doesn't allow either.
I would love to have the random explosion timer removed but that would make macro pot throwing run rampant. It would make pvp very frustrating if every nub alchy dexxor always landed a pot in open field. But, I could pull my lumberjacking alchy dexxor out for some some fun.

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I'm not saying dexxers shouldn't be able to disrupt. I'm saying the rate you are hit while casting feels very high compared to when you're not casting, which leads to constant disrupts.

The random explosion timer was referring to the spell Explosion. It has a large random window between when it's dropped and when the damage hits. Sorry for the confusion.

Bahramyou said:

I would love to have the random explosion timer removed but that would make macro pot throwing run rampant. It would make pvp very frustrating if every nub alchy dexxor always landed a pot in open field. But, I could pull my lumberjacking alchy dexxor out for some some fun.

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What he means by random explosion timer is for the spell explosion not explosion pots. Currently explosion spell damage hits at a random interval from 2700ms to 3100ms. At the extremes this is almost a half second difference between when two explosions can hit when cast at the exact same time.


These threads have been made on this subject

http://www.uoforum.com/threads/randomized-explosion-spell-timer-poll.45549/#post-292487

http://www.uoforum.com/threads/un-randomize-explosion-spell-timer.45209/


I like and agree with everything stated by Shake in this thread. I'm sure any halfway decent pvper will also agree with these changes.

EVs I feel like I have complained and made threads about enough that it is like beating a dead horse. I won't say anything else on the subject other than what Shake is saying is 100% right.

The wrestling here is definitely weird. For example while casting a spell you are unable to wrestle hit, but you are able to stun punch. IMO you should be able to wrestle while casting like on every other shard. Also like he said it seems like dexxers disrupt casts much more often. I'm not sure if wrestling is ignored while casting or what.

I won't go into every spell that needs adjusted, but I would like to say magic arrow is pretty laughable as it is now in terms of damage delay. Lightning damage is pretty low. I could be wrong, but flame strike damage delay does not quite match the animation. I think the damage should hit sooner than it does. edit: cancel that not sure why I was doubting myself. The damage delay between uoforever FS and here is around 150ms difference. I knew there was a reason I have not been healing FS syncs all that well and the other day I could tell something was definitely off. I've been healing much earlier than when the damage is hitting.

One thing I will say is that if some of these changes are implemented some other things would have to change as well to balance things for duels here (mainly 5x). I'm sure the reason magic arrow damage delay is the way it is here is because of 5x duels. To me it is the wrong way to go about changing it. I would like to see longer ticks between poisons and maybe this would keep people from being able to magic arrow spam if the damage delay was shortened on it.

I know that this shard will never be uoforever, but I feel like a great deal of balance and testing was done there to get a very good casting system. It would honestly be nice if we could have similar delays and such just without the wands, bolas, corrupt staff, etc.

Shake said:

I'm not saying dexxers shouldn't be able to disrupt. I'm saying the rate you are hit while casting feels very high compared to when you're not casting, which leads to constant disrupts.

The random explosion timer was referring to the spell Explosion. It has a large random window between when it's dropped and when the damage hits. Sorry for the confusion.

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the explosion spell timer is random????????????? wow thats insanly dumb. i didnt know that. are you sure? I need to test that out. i cant see how. That stinks, its hard to beat gank squads when you cant run and gun sync drops.

Actually I don't do pvp, but I'd like so much have stacked pot.

Inviato dal mio Nexus 4 utilizzando Tapatalk

I'm not enough of a pvper to have any opinion on most of what you want changed but I think EVs should not poison players or monsters. Blade spirits should poison but EVs are supposed to be energy. It doesn't even make sense they poison, really.

No talking about stacked potions. Punishment will soon follow.

The Real Keith said:

No talking about stacked potions. Punishment will soon follow.

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Dat lampshading~~