A suggestion to balance pet stat loss.

TheFallen

Grandmaster
Rather than just complaining about recent changes (which yes were necessary to do something) I am going to recommend that we the player base come up solutions as we out number the gm about 1000 to 1 we can likely find creative balanced solutions if we spend a little less time whining.
Things to keep in mind:
Tamers are high end pvm pets will die
Tamers should care if their pet dies (the biggest reason for the current change)
So how do you make pretty death meaningful but not devastating?

My suggestion: increase the difficulty of gaining skills on pets 100 fold instead of increasing the skill loss 100 fold. Change the current skill loss anywhere from .1 to 2.0 depending on exactly how hard skill gain is set.
This would cause one death to have only a small impact and not immediately gimp that pet but if you are actively farming with it and ensuring it's general survival you'll be fine. If you are constantly disregarding your pet our apt using it as a meat shield you will have to accept using it at 90% skills. You could also have balling a pet immediately drop the pet to 90%.
This way active tamers still have good close to perfect pets.
You can attempt to tackle top end pvm without having to give up on first death.
You will have to work to keep top skills.
You create a market for fully trained pets.
I feel the balance can be found much easier in the gaining of skills and give tamers a reason to both work their pets and accept the fact their pet may die when taking on very hairy situations.
 

Messremb

Grandmaster
Rather than just complaining about recent changes (which yes were necessary to do something) I am going to recommend that we the player base come up solutions as we out number the gm about 1000 to 1 we can likely find creative balanced solutions if we spend a little less time whining.
Things to keep in mind:
Tamers are high end pvm pets will die
Tamers should care if their pet dies (the biggest reason for the current change)
So how do you make pretty death meaningful but not devastating?

My suggestion: increase the difficulty of gaining skills on pets 100 fold instead of increasing the skill loss 100 fold. Change the current skill loss anywhere from .1 to 2.0 depending on exactly how hard skill gain is set.
This would cause one death to have only a small impact and not immediately gimp that pet but if you are actively farming with it and ensuring it's general survival you'll be fine. If you are constantly disregarding your pet our apt using it as a meat shield you will have to accept using it at 90% skills. You could also have balling a pet immediately drop the pet to 90%.
This way active tamers still have good close to perfect pets.
You can attempt to tackle top end pvm without having to give up on first death.
You will have to work to keep top skills.
You create a market for fully trained pets.
I feel the balance can be found much easier in the gaining of skills and give tamers a reason to both work their pets and accept the fact their pet may die when taking on very hairy situations.

I agree with most of this,

I think making pets harder to train is a great way to solve the problem. the only thing I would say is don't make Resisting spells to much harder. maybe only twice as hard to train for that one.

also I think balling a pet once should have no effect but more than once in say a 12 hour period should have skill loss. that way tamers aren't punished if someone boats their pet, but if you're using pets in PVP they will lose effectiveness.
 

AlyM

Grandmaster
I agree with most of this,

I think making pets harder to train is a great way to solve the problem. the only thing I would say is don't make Resisting spells to much harder. maybe only twice as hard to train for that one.

also I think balling a pet once should have no effect but more than once in say a 12 hour period should have skill loss. that way tamers aren't punished if someone boats their pet, but if you're using pets in PVP they will lose effectiveness.
Does using a ball cause damage to the pet currently?

And I agree, resist is pretty hard to train already. 5x GM a pet and magery is usually ~70, resist ~45.
 

Yagyu

Adept
"You create a market for fully trained pets."

That will be very lame. I said the same thing in my thread earlier, and I think any change in the market for said pets would be counter-productive. I really don't think making the training such a huge undertaking would be a great idea. I still think the best idea is some form of temp stat/skill loss anywhere from 30 min up to 4 hours. As I thought a little more, a 30 min temp stat/skill loss would make your pet weak, but it would still be able to function. You would not be able use it effectively though. I dont know if a half hour is too short, as it would be easy for a tamer to go to stable and switch to 2nd set of pets...I thought 2 hours was a good time period.

I would like to see some more suggestions.

From what they said, they are looking to make tamers not just zerg swarm the pets, and use them so recklessly in champ spawns, and/or pvp.
 

Casor

Adept
Maybe just make the stat-loss temporary like with murderers?

Just be lucky that you can bond pets at all. I don't remember such a thing back when I played originally in '97.
 

Lexington

Grandmaster
Maybe just make the stat-loss temporary like with murderers?



I'm not sure what brought on this change... to me it seems like a punishment! BUT, if it is needed the above suggestion is absolutely the best idea ever! It's absurd to think a BLUE tamer would suffer a punishment greater then a MURDER.. @Bryce :)
 
Don't see the point of having pet bonding if pets get 10% stat loss now. Your pet dies 2-3 times and it's practically like a fresh tame
 

Don Key

Master
I would prefer to see no pet bonding. It creates player interaction at spawn locations which is good for any shard.

While I'm at it, I'd like to see the Recall spell removed, this also creates more player interaction since mages will be needed to travel or *GASP* actually run on your mount and take moongates. Also with that, make gate travel not work inside dungeons. At LEAST make recall not work inside dungeons.

Oh, and triple the cost of npc vendor items.
 

Don Key

Master
On topic though, I like temporary stat loss on bonded pets. Should be for a long enough period so that it actually matters to a tamer with lots of pets. Except you could pay 1,000,000* gold to res the pet with no stat loss so as too add another gold sink.

*price to be determined
 

TheFallen

Grandmaster
The problem with pet stat timer or any immediate major pet loss is if you go after big game ie. High end Paragon if your pet dies once you have to admit defeat because if a gm pet couldn't do it a 90's pet is going to have some problems.
I enjoy the big game mobs although they are not the most profitable it is fun to take on the hardest challenge but with a harsh punishment upon death and a reward already less than some easier less difficult mobs I don't see a reason to take on a shadow Paragon balron.
 

halygon

Grandmaster
Coming from a shard that did have pets that were hard to 7x -- I can tell you that it does bring in a whole new market. One I would probably make another tamer for.

If pet skill gain was harder and players actually respected the effort involved to have a 7x pet, then I think it would accomplish the same goal that the devs are trying to meet with the current changes. In addition a 1.0 point skill loss would then be more appropriate upon a pet death than with the current way pets gain skills.
 

Bryce

Adept
Currently on live it is a 1% per death skill loss.

We also made gaining skill on said pets in line with player skillgain. This is DOWN quite a bit from what it was.
 

TheFallen

Grandmaster
Currently on live it is a 1% per death skill loss.

We also made gaining skill on said pets in line with player skillgain. This is DOWN quite a bit from what it was.
Excellent. This should allow tamers to still take on the big game while still punishing those who don't care for there pets. I may have to keep my pack stables for awhile since they are too squishy but for now I think we have found a nice balance.

It's amazing how much better constructive suggestion threads work compared to whining complaining threads.
 

halygon

Grandmaster
Excellent. This should allow tamers to still take on the big game while still punishing those who don't care for there pets. I may have to keep my pack stables for awhile since they are too squishy but for now I think we have found a nice balance.

It's amazing how much better constructive suggestion threads work compared to whining complaining threads.
No lie. Good stuff. Glad we got a 3rd account as I might just need to make me some tamers (two is ideal for pet training).
 
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