Malkraven
Grandmaster
if they aint on factions they need to come on reds and face statloss and be freely attack-able to all ?
Now that EQMS is leaving, implement a guild member cap
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if they aint on factions they need to come on reds and face statloss and be freely attack-able to all ?
Malkraven
Grandmaster
Limiting guild sizes wont do anything either except force guilds that are a community ( Trinsic ect) to split up and have alot of people on a friends list? ( this wouldn't work for factions since u cant X faction heal ect)
So you agree I make a valid point and then just go back to saying that due to a past problem my point shouldnt matter?
Macunzo
Adept
EQMS provided some "services"
to members that are interesting from a historical UO perspective:
"EQMS is the new Trammel" (can't find the quote, it's from Shane, I think). Too much slaughtering of sheep got trammel implemented on OSI. By providing a reasonably safe farming environment for top loot to its sheep, EQMS effectively trammelized Felucca for the sheep. Is that inherently bad?
EQMS allowed the sheep to "win" in PvP by dumbing the fight down to BOOM. In that video from EQMS's first event, everyone laughed after every sussessful BOOM. It is fun for the sheep to finally be able to "compete" with the top 5% (and girana correctly says that this is the only realistic way for the sheep to compete). The top 5% will continue to label this a "tainted win" (again can't find the quote, from Flube on discord), but that is another eternal discussion in PvP-MMOGs. The sheep were finally having fun in PvP.
So: In the first years of UO, Raph Koester's biggest fight was to help the sheep against the wolves, while keeping up the social theory behind his sandbox game (OSI lost that fight eventually with Trammel). EQMS kinda succeeded in the fight for the sheep. I found that quite fascinating to watch.
At the same time, EQMS fully played out the Lord of the Flies. Made me shiver.
So, if the toxic behavior had been absent, would a large EQMS have been the same problem?
to members that are interesting from a historical UO perspective:
"EQMS is the new Trammel" (can't find the quote, it's from Shane, I think). Too much slaughtering of sheep got trammel implemented on OSI. By providing a reasonably safe farming environment for top loot to its sheep, EQMS effectively trammelized Felucca for the sheep. Is that inherently bad?
EQMS allowed the sheep to "win" in PvP by dumbing the fight down to BOOM. In that video from EQMS's first event, everyone laughed after every sussessful BOOM. It is fun for the sheep to finally be able to "compete" with the top 5% (and girana correctly says that this is the only realistic way for the sheep to compete). The top 5% will continue to label this a "tainted win" (again can't find the quote, from Flube on discord), but that is another eternal discussion in PvP-MMOGs. The sheep were finally having fun in PvP.
So: In the first years of UO, Raph Koester's biggest fight was to help the sheep against the wolves, while keeping up the social theory behind his sandbox game (OSI lost that fight eventually with Trammel). EQMS kinda succeeded in the fight for the sheep. I found that quite fascinating to watch.
At the same time, EQMS fully played out the Lord of the Flies. Made me shiver.
So, if the toxic behavior had been absent, would a large EQMS have been the same problem?
Darkarna
Grandmaster
If EQMS were not toxic at all, IE in-game or out, would they have been the same problem?
Macunzo
Adept
EQMS sort of succeeded where OSI failed:
Let the sheep have fun on a joint shard of sheep and wolves (Felucca). Although for many, the price was too high (bow to someone like Gluttony).
Was the size of EQMS so negative for the server that now the wolves left? Or was the big problem just the toxic behavior?
no it would not be but its nearly im possible to have a guild that size and no toxic.
247 was 3-4 years ago the same for a long time it worked well with them but in the end a small part turned toxic and made staff stop them.
Bromista
Grandmaster
Capping factions solves an unrelated issue I don't know why people are talking about that here. This is the wrong thread for that discussion : eye roll
@Macunzo correctly draws a parralel between EQMS and lord of the flies, a comparison I have made several times
And in the end it's probably not going to be a problem anymore so I personally don't see a need for any cap. I'm curious to see how the remaining guilds and alliances respond to the current state of affairs.
POWER have hinted at breaking up the band, have they not? Their mass recruiting has put them in the position of biggest alliance amongst the tryhards.
If only they actually focused their attention on other tryhards instead of banging on PvMers. Strangers to legitimate PvP, PKing with small numbers (I mean yeah they are toxic and yeah they are fragile and call-in for every fight even against a PvMer) was always their game. Maybe now that EQMS is gone and they have people who want to be taken seriously in the PvP department things will change.
So this remains to be seen. You bet your ass they ride this "high" for at least a little while because they haven't won in a long time, save against ragtag groups of PvMers at the Arch Daemon or whatever. I bet they don't break up the band for some time.
But to think that a guild cap is going to be the solution, I think that's incorrect. It's up to the players IMO.
@Macunzo correctly draws a parralel between EQMS and lord of the flies, a comparison I have made several times
And in the end it's probably not going to be a problem anymore so I personally don't see a need for any cap. I'm curious to see how the remaining guilds and alliances respond to the current state of affairs.
POWER have hinted at breaking up the band, have they not? Their mass recruiting has put them in the position of biggest alliance amongst the tryhards.
If only they actually focused their attention on other tryhards instead of banging on PvMers. Strangers to legitimate PvP, PKing with small numbers (I mean yeah they are toxic and yeah they are fragile and call-in for every fight even against a PvMer) was always their game. Maybe now that EQMS is gone and they have people who want to be taken seriously in the PvP department things will change.
So this remains to be seen. You bet your ass they ride this "high" for at least a little while because they haven't won in a long time, save against ragtag groups of PvMers at the Arch Daemon or whatever. I bet they don't break up the band for some time.
But to think that a guild cap is going to be the solution, I think that's incorrect. It's up to the players IMO.
Darkarna
Grandmaster
I am sure it will be monitored to save all the crap that has happened over the last year or so.
Francis|The|Bold
Neophyte
Gluttony also managed to turn one of his talking points into the accepted truth. I play alone on this server 98% of the time. In Dungeons. Often in full plate (so slow mana recharge) and I rarely die. If anything only the stealth PKs usually get me. Even Pop Tart misses me if he doesn't happen to come at me at a line of sight, so he can interupt me fast enough, I am almost always out and I never amd stupid enough to return to the same spot twice.
Stealth PKs are another thing, but if I am on my Llama, I can usually escape by foot if the spawn isn't bad.
I'd say I get 5-8 attempts a day on me a maybe die once every other day.
And I'm not good.
Its not hard.
You don't have to be in a zerg guild to PvM and NOT be PKd. You just have to be told\shown how to play smart and stay safe on your own. A companion can show them that.
That was always one of Glutt's top selling points to prospective members and I keep seeing people repeat it.
Repeating a lie 100 times doesn't make it more true...
Stealth PKs are another thing, but if I am on my Llama, I can usually escape by foot if the spawn isn't bad.
I'd say I get 5-8 attempts a day on me a maybe die once every other day.
And I'm not good.
Its not hard.
You don't have to be in a zerg guild to PvM and NOT be PKd. You just have to be told\shown how to play smart and stay safe on your own. A companion can show them that.
That was always one of Glutt's top selling points to prospective members and I keep seeing people repeat it.
Repeating a lie 100 times doesn't make it more true...
i dont think so
Macunzo
Adept
I solo 100%, am unguilded, and have no complaints about PK. Narratives can create perceived truths, though. Goonswarm in EVE ...
However, I think more important was the changed dynamics for the top loot from champs, which really were pretty much dominated by EQMS (or not?).
This has been in hte works for a month now (New guild system). Almost ready for testing.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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