Donation Coins - Untradable

[UoTrader]

So I understand this server has to make money and anyone who understand micro transactions knows you all have the lock on a seriously well oiled machine here. Pixels for coins is perfect and feeds into the addiction that makes micro transactions possible. The disconnect of real dollars transformed into "coins". It lets players feel like they are not spending as much as they really are and it gives them satisfaction while helping you run the site.

That is NOT the issue.

The issue is they are starting to really fuck the economy.

Because of the trade-ability of donation coins you now have a currency concurrent to gold. Such as BitCoin to the US Dollar.
However this makes a bubble, in which those who are willing to drop loads cash IRL live in. So while yes this is great news for you as developers, this is horrible for players, especially new. To even make a dent in the market these days to afford a house, tamer, skills, etc... you must seriously consider donating.

So those who don't buy gold are starting to quickly get surpassed by those who buy donation coins. This in turn is making an influx of donation coins #1 turning them into a more profitable currency than the gold. As well gold is now swapping hands from earned to donators quickly. Thus padding the pockets in a very high differential to those who worked for it and those who did not. Ethics aside however...

I suggest this change to make it so Donation coins don't become the bitcoin of UO and are there for what they are intended: Buying cosmetics upgrades to YOUR character and not to flood the market with an unattainable high end: Make donations coins ACCOUNT BOUND.

Problem solved. You may take a small hit on server costs but if you keep the cosmetic items up you will do just fine. That or we could continue to pump "money" into the economy each time someone hits the donate button and then wonder why the economy is going to shit.

Sincerely,

Someone who understands money, most definitely a jew, and a consultant IRL.

 

[K A Z]

just a little thought: how comes most of the uber rich players on here aren't donators then? People like Azria and Flube? It's FREAKING easy to make Gold on here and with a bit of trading you can easily outplay any donator. It just takes longer, so yea. + actually they were untradeable before and it didnt change shit - people are still going to buy donation items off donators and dono coins will still be important.

 

[Nihilism]

Support.
I'm all for the Staff being paid for their time, their improvements, and the services they provide.

Having said that, it's certainly getting out of control with respect to how much Dono coins have surpassed gold as the preferred methods of payment.
With hopeful new players joining the server through marketing/advertising/expansion release, some may want to donate right off the bat, others won't. The ones that won't are going to find a VERY difficult time starting out the server, especially when shit costs so damn much for them, they're pretty liable to quit early on. And sure it's easy to say "quitters probably wouldn't last anyways". But that's not exactly a proven fact.

 

[Nihilism]

just a little thought: how comes most of the uber rich players on here aren't donators then? People like Azria and Flube? It's FREAKING easy to make Gold on here and with a bit of trading you can easily outplay any donator. It just takes longer, so yea. + actually they were untradeable before and it didnt change shit - people are still going to buy donation items off donators and dono coins will still be important.

Because I, like them, started playing and built a foundation of funds when shit was still cheap. You buy, and resell etc, over and over. But it takes that initial foundation to do something like that. Someone joining fresh doesn't have that "luxury" *UNLESS* they donate.

 

[TheFallen]

Unfortunately donation coins aren't the problem but there value that's the problem. Meaning that they are worth to much gold. Why are they worth too much gold. No continuous gold sink. Gold only enters this economy with no real exit. For new players to have a chance they can't start 40m behind the one year vets Ie. 400hrs of pretty decent farming.
Inflation destroys shard growth.

 

[Nihilism]

Unfortunately donation coins aren't the problem but there value that's the problem. Meaning that they are worth to much gold. Why are they worth too much gold. No continuous gold sink. Gold only enters this economy with no real exit. For new players to have a chance they can't start 40m behind the one year vets Ie. 400hrs of pretty decent farming.
Inflation destroys shard growth.

Well, for the most part, yes. But dono coins being TRADEABLE *is* the problem. By keeping them tradeable, it empowers the rich to designate their value, as anyone and their mother will just buy low sell high.
Which in fact does root back to the dono coins being tradeable issue.

 

[UoTrader]

When micro transactions start to effect economy you alienate your player base. So for now during the peak life of uo forever it is extremely profitable and may look good. But overall you will lose players and it is unsustainable. Look at clash of clans. Perfect example of micro done right.


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[yourdaddy]

Donation coins are worth too much? Considering how easy it is to make 175, I'd say the gold is well worth the 10 $.

I have never donated (sorry guys) because I think that makes the game too easy, and I don't like easy (otherwise, why would you even play UO?).

 

[UoTrader]

Donation coins are worth too much? Considering how easy it is to make 175, I'd say the gold is well worth the 10 $.

I have never donated (sorry guys) because I think that makes the game too easy, and I don't like easy (otherwise, why would you even play UO?).

You buying them or not doesn't change how inflation, economy, and valuations work. Easy or hard to make gold, that is basically saying since the US already has a trillion debt might as well double it since it is "just debt".

It will effect you when players leave due to not being able to effectively start or being handed things free because valuations drop so there is no in game carrot on a stick.


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[yourdaddy]

i started here 2 months ago and I never felt I was that out of the game.

 

[Lexington]

Why is that so many focus on the economy and not the actual game play? There is so much more to the game then buying and selling and then reselling for a profit. Don’t we have enough of that in real life?

 

[UoTrader]

Why is that so many focus on the economy and not the actual game play? There is so much more to the game then buying and selling and then reselling for a profit. Don’t we have enough of that in real life?

Technically the proposed change would not effect you then would it?

Look economy really does make and break a game. Specially in a sandbox. I am just trying to suggest a positive change for the players long term. Maybe the devs have a better long term plan and in that case sweet. But I am just suggesting an idea when I see the economy starting to flood.


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[Lexington]

Technically the proposed change would not effect you then would it?

Look economy really does make and break a game. Specially in a sandbox. I am just trying to suggest a positive change for the players long term. Maybe the devs have a better long term plan and in that case sweet. But I am just suggesting an idea when I see the economy starting to flood.


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No, it will affect me alright if things change and go back to the way they were. I'm sitting on a lot of coins at the moment. Back when the coins weren’t tradable players just got others to buy the rewards for them. That was a lot more risky because you could buy something for a person and then they would renege on the sale leaving you with something you really didn’t want. It’s not the donations coins that are hindering the economy that just evens the playing field with the UO brokers. They are the ones that are in control of the economy. They are the ones driving up the prices with the constant buying and selling of goods for profit.

 

[UoTrader]

No, it will affect me alright if things change and go back to the way they were. I'm sitting on a lot of coins at the moment. Back when the coins weren’t tradable players just got others to buy the rewards for them. That was a lot more risky because you could buy something for a person and then they would renege on the sale leaving you with something you really didn’t want. It’s not the donations coins that are hindering the economy that just evens the playing field with the UO brokers. They are the ones that are in control of the economy. They are the ones driving up the prices with the constant buying and selling of goods for profit.

.... so you don't actually care about the economy...

 

[Lexington]

.... so you don't actually care about the economy...

Sure I do... but I'd like to think I care more about the game play. I dont have the prefect answer! I just see that some only care about the ecomomy.

Love your sig BTW

 

[gofer]

Playing devil's advocate here. One must be very careful with this form of argument because it is of a classic nature. Allow me to explain, this type of argument is frequently seen with the upper class that aims stymie those in the middle to lower class (see Federal Reserve + interest rates as an example) from joining the "upper class club." I am not saying that was your intention (it very well could be ... or not..idc), but you must be very careful, because such motives ultimately lead to an impasse between two different groups and no progress. I am all for bettering the economy to such a degree that what is happening in GW2 does not occur here. GW2's donation model, from a foundational standpoint, is great though so I will give them that.

 

[Nihilism]

My stance on this is purely because I want the server to grow.
I want new players.
But people need to step outside of what they're familiar with.
It's hard for a majority of us to even try to THINK about what it's like for BRAND NEW players to join the shard. Sure, there's the nostalgics that greatly encompass the playerbase, but what about those that have never played before. Don't have the slightest fucking clue how to start from scratch and start earning one's ways up.
For sure, that's what the forums/companions are for. But even then, they can probably only get a VERY limited/general idea of what to do. And if *these* people don't feel it's "for them" to donate because they haven't been hooked yet or for WHATEVER reason, they're gonna have a very tough time getting hooked on the pixel crack that we all know UO to be. And could just leave.

Having said that...

Any changes to the system are only a pipe-dream. It is what it is, and we'll just have to see where it goes from here.

Much like guns in the U.S. Impossible to rid them now, guy A buys them claiming he needs protection from guy B, but if guy B couldn't acquire them, guy A wouldn't have the need to either, but they're already so vastly in circulation.

It's just really unfortunate to see how often Dono coins are being preferred over anything else... Especially when the coins are meant as a "thanks for contributing/showing your appreciation", but instead are pretty much a "here's your better currency".

 

[K A Z]

The problem with MMORPGS like UO is that ANY new player will be at a disadvantage because some of us have played this game for years and dedicate MANY hours a day playing it.

 

[Nihilism]

Right, but just sucks to get kicked in the side of the face while you're already down.

 

[kurtis]

I don't want to speak for Shane, but I've heard him say that one purpose of the donation coins is so that people that don't have the time to acquire gold in game can still acquire gold by donating to the server. I believe he likes the economy surrounding the donation coins. It's a win-win. The server gets $$ so it can survive and grow. People that could not otherwise spend time farming up a char or buy decent house can still enjoy the game in that way. He drew the line at skill balls however (which is a good idea for so many reasons I won't get into).

And I think everyone here is exaggerating the detriment to new players. What does a new player really need? Regs, bandaids, weaps, gold and armor? Gold is so easy to farm. All that stuff can be purchased either from NPC's or on player vendor's for cheap. A full barbed leather set costs 1K? Chain dex suit costs...1.5K? A starter house (even up to a log or villa) is so cheap and so easy to place still. There's literally a post in the forums where someone (Kiki?) offers to find a house location for free. When I make a new char, I always start from scratch and I never fish gold or items to them from my other chars. That's part of the fun for me - to pretend like it's my first char and play it like that until the char is finished. It takes only a few days to be up and running and have 100K sitting in my bank...

I also want to add that starting on a server should be hard. Way harder than it is actually.