Endgame Ideas and Realism

[Shucky]

One thing that attracts people to UO is the opportunity to create an identity. Skill-based titles such as "Grandmaster Mage" don't say a whole lot about how you've been spending your time lately. I would like to have an additional title based on my recent relative rank in a certain activity. My idea for endgame would be titles that would reset every week, based on relative rank for achievements during the previous week, to reward active play of every kind, including grinding. Examples: players killed, monsters killed, items crafted, skills used. There could be both general and specific rankings. as well as total number and point total rankings. Players could let it default to their highest rank category, or choose the category. It would allow you to communicate your specialty to others who may be seeking out someone with your experience.

Another thing that could improve is realism. You should be able to use anatomy skill on yourself (even at 0 skill) to check your level of thirst, hunger, fatigue, exposure, intoxication and illness. There could be mild to severe effects on stats, skills and health, such that everyone would occasionally drink, eat, dress appropriately (e.g., furs, swamp boots), rest on beds, bedrolls or chairs and take medicine (crafted by alchemists using apparatus from plant extracts). There would be a real need for drinks, food, clothes, beds and bedrolls. Brews could have enough benefit (such as enhancement to strength and resistances) to make their use beneficial in certain situations, and increase the value of cooking skill. Clothing (and jewelry) could effect NPC reaction to you. Eating and drinking could take time, which could be lessened if you carry dinnerware.

If lighting is rendered irrelevant, there could at least be certain spawns for certain times of day, such as NPC pickpockets and muggers who prey on the unwary at night when the guards are less able to stop them, so that the safest places to while away the dark hours would be taverns or inns. In past Ultima games, variations in lighting and the need for light sources were usually very significant.

One way to solve the housing issue would be to introduce property taxes scaled to property size, high enough that inactive players would not be able to hang onto their prime real estate just by logging in once per week. Property should be a reward to active players, not those who got in early and got first dibs on the best spots. While on the topic of land, it should be possible not only to build a house on a plot, but also productive trees, farms and animal pens (to get milk from cows or eggs from chickens, for example).

Where it comes to skills and items, I am in favor of making as many as possible to have desirable and unique uses, and not mere decoration, including items such as plants, utensils, beds, bedrolls, chairs, clothing, jewelry, spyglasses, balances and lab apparatus, and skills such as begging, camping, arms lore, herding and taste identification. Also, there could be special GM achievements for as many skills as possible.

Perhaps there could even be some uses for the body parts lying around, such as constructing undead, possibly by placing the parts on a pentagram or abattoir (with different effects) and casting the appropriate spells such as lightning or summoning. On a related note, should it not be possible to charm some NPCs to become henchman, in addition to hirelings? Using taming or musicianship, or a "leadership" skill, it might also work on all of the monstrous humanoids including ratmen, orcs, lizardmen, ettins, ogres, trolls, terathans, ophidians and titans.

 

[FAMARA]

that's pretty deep dude. some neat ideas.

 

[StarBaby]

Great ideas.. but, property isnt an issue.. there are houses going idoc daily.. and most guilds I am in are giving away houses and locations.
If anything, the thing I hear most is." Can anyone still place a property? I already have homes on both my accounts"

 

[Shucky]

Great ideas.. but, property isnt an issue.. there are houses going idoc daily.. and most guilds I am in are giving away houses and locations.
If anything, the thing I hear most is." Can anyone still place a property? I already have homes on both my accounts"

Maybe, but don't you get annoyed when you see plots that go undeveloped, sometimes for months? Can you think of a better way to reward active play while nudging the old-timers not to rest on their laurels? Btw, if you know of some spots for a large 3-story customizable, please email me, as I have never seen any myself.

 

[tr1age]

One thing that attracts people to UO is the opportunity to create an identity. Skill-based titles such as "Grandmaster Mage" don't say a whole lot about how you've been spending your time lately. I would like to have an additional title based on my recent relative rank in a certain activity. My idea for endgame would be titles that would reset every week, based on relative rank for achievements during the previous week, to reward active play of every kind, including grinding. Examples: players killed, monsters killed, items crafted, skills used. There could be both general and specific rankings. as well as total number and point total rankings. Players could let it default to their highest rank category, or choose the category. It would allow you to communicate your specialty to others who may be seeking out someone with your experience.

Another thing that could improve is realism. You should be able to use anatomy skill on yourself (even at 0 skill) to check your level of thirst, hunger, fatigue, exposure, intoxication and illness. There could be mild to severe effects on stats, skills and health, such that everyone would occasionally drink, eat, dress appropriately (e.g., furs, swamp boots), rest on beds, bedrolls or chairs and take medicine (crafted by alchemists using apparatus from plant extracts). There would be a real need for drinks, food, clothes, beds and bedrolls. Brews could have enough benefit (such as enhancement to strength and resistances) to make their use beneficial in certain situations, and increase the value of cooking skill. Clothing (and jewelry) could effect NPC reaction to you. Eating and drinking could take time, which could be lessened if you carry dinnerware.

If lighting is rendered irrelevant, there could at least be certain spawns for certain times of day, such as NPC pickpockets and muggers who prey on the unwary at night when the guards are less able to stop them, so that the safest places to while away the dark hours would be taverns or inns. In past Ultima games, variations in lighting and the need for light sources were usually very significant.

One way to solve the housing issue would be to introduce property taxes scaled to property size, high enough that inactive players would not be able to hang onto their prime real estate just by logging in once per week. Property should be a reward to active players, not those who got in early and got first dibs on the best spots. While on the topic of land, it should be possible not only to build a house on a plot, but also productive trees, farms and animal pens (to get milk from cows or eggs from chickens, for example).

Where it comes to skills and items, I am in favor of making as many as possible to have desirable and unique uses, and not mere decoration, including items such as plants, utensils, beds, bedrolls, chairs, clothing, jewelry, spyglasses, balances and lab apparatus, and skills such as begging, camping, arms lore, herding and taste identification. Also, there could be special GM achievements for as many skills as possible.

Perhaps there could even be some uses for the body parts lying around, such as constructing undead, possibly by placing the parts on a pentagram or abattoir (with different effects) and casting the appropriate spells such as lightning or summoning. On a related note, should it not be possible to charm some NPCs to become henchman, in addition to hirelings? Using taming or musicianship, or a "leadership" skill, it might also work on all of the monstrous humanoids including ratmen, orcs, lizardmen, ettins, ogres, trolls, terathans, ophidians and titans.

Now all you need to do is figure out how to code it all and you are set to develop a game.

 

[Bromista]

Definitely some good ideas here.

And I think there is some merit to tackling house plots that are stagnating. Maybe a tagging system could be put into place so that plots can be marked and if left untouched (simply refreshed every two wks or whatever) for an extended period of time they could get dropped by staff.

Only problem is it's already easy to just log in and refresh a house, if someone is taking the time to do that then surely they could almost as easily log in and build/customize a plot or lock some junk down on the steps of a classic to avoid getting dropped.

And for some people life just...happens...and they have to step away from their virtual lives with ambitions of coming back so their friend who doesn't have owner access refreshes their homes for them in hopes that they one day return.

It's one of many, many fine line situations present in UO.

 

[Shucky]

Now all you need to do is figure out how to code it all and you are set to develop a game.

I wasn't sure what else the "Suggestions & Ideas" thread was supposed to be for. The real question is, did you have a strong opinion about any of my ideas, one way or the other? Do you feel the game is already perfect, or could it be improved in some way?

 

[tr1age]

I wasn't sure what else the "Suggestions & Ideas" thread was supposed to be for. The real question is, did you have a strong opinion about any of my ideas, one way or the other? Do you feel the game is already perfect, or could it be improved in some way?

I don't want "realism" to be honest. I don't play a game to drink and eat. I play a game to log in when I can and log off when I have to.

I like when I can go on vacation without worrying about taxes.

I like some of your ideas but I also don't like some as well. I also know to implement some of your ideas would require a rewrite of the game from the ground up not just a line of code.

 

[Shucky]

I don't want "realism" to be honest... I also know to implement some of your ideas would require a rewrite of the game from the ground up not just a line of code.

What makes it immersive is different for everyone. Imagine if there were a variety of swords you could make, none of them any better than using a dagger. Or potions you could drink, with various names and colors, with negligible effect. Furthermore, needing to eat and rest just to survive was a major element in several of the Ultima games, for better or worse. Many Ultima fans missed that in UO, and felt a bit teased by the abundance of items that were merely decorative or of negligible practical use.

I appreciate both of those points you made. What if there were moderately long effects (much longer than potions), such as faster stamina recovery after drinking (especially from brews), faster health recovery after eating (especially foods that required more preparation), and boosts to all stats and skills after resting (especially on chairs, beds and bedrolls)? It may put you at some disadvantage versus those who kept those needs satisfied, but you wouldn't die of thirst, hunger or sleep deprivation. At the same time, it would make those activities and any related skills more meaningful for those of us who care about them.

As to the latter point, we all leave it up to the shard management which if any suggestions they feel are worth their effort.

 

[Kraden]

One thing that attracts people to UO is the opportunity to create an identity. Skill-based titles such as "Grandmaster Mage" don't say a whole lot about how you've been spending your time lately. I would like to have an additional title based on my recent relative rank in a certain activity. My idea for endgame would be titles that would reset every week, based on relative rank for achievements during the previous week, to reward active play of every kind, including grinding. Examples: players killed, monsters killed, items crafted, skills used. There could be both general and specific rankings. as well as total number and point total rankings. Players could let it default to their highest rank category, or choose the category. It would allow you to communicate your specialty to others who may be seeking out someone with your experience.

Another thing that could improve is realism. You should be able to use anatomy skill on yourself (even at 0 skill) to check your level of thirst, hunger, fatigue, exposure, intoxication and illness. There could be mild to severe effects on stats, skills and health, such that everyone would occasionally drink, eat, dress appropriately (e.g., furs, swamp boots), rest on beds, bedrolls or chairs and take medicine (crafted by alchemists using apparatus from plant extracts). There would be a real need for drinks, food, clothes, beds and bedrolls. Brews could have enough benefit (such as enhancement to strength and resistances) to make their use beneficial in certain situations, and increase the value of cooking skill. Clothing (and jewelry) could effect NPC reaction to you. Eating and drinking could take time, which could be lessened if you carry dinnerware.

If lighting is rendered irrelevant, there could at least be certain spawns for certain times of day, such as NPC pickpockets and muggers who prey on the unwary at night when the guards are less able to stop them, so that the safest places to while away the dark hours would be taverns or inns. In past Ultima games, variations in lighting and the need for light sources were usually very significant.

One way to solve the housing issue would be to introduce property taxes scaled to property size, high enough that inactive players would not be able to hang onto their prime real estate just by logging in once per week. Property should be a reward to active players, not those who got in early and got first dibs on the best spots. While on the topic of land, it should be possible not only to build a house on a plot, but also productive trees, farms and animal pens (to get milk from cows or eggs from chickens, for example).

Where it comes to skills and items, I am in favor of making as many as possible to have desirable and unique uses, and not mere decoration, including items such as plants, utensils, beds, bedrolls, chairs, clothing, jewelry, spyglasses, balances and lab apparatus, and skills such as begging, camping, arms lore, herding and taste identification. Also, there could be special GM achievements for as many skills as possible.

Perhaps there could even be some uses for the body parts lying around, such as constructing undead, possibly by placing the parts on a pentagram or abattoir (with different effects) and casting the appropriate spells such as lightning or summoning. On a related note, should it not be possible to charm some NPCs to become henchman, in addition to hirelings? Using taming or musicianship, or a "leadership" skill, it might also work on all of the monstrous humanoids including ratmen, orcs, lizardmen, ettins, ogres, trolls, terathans, ophidians and titans.

All good ideas in my book man all of em

 

[A'zah]

I support every single idea mentioned in this post. This is a Role Playing Game and more efforts should be made to promote that theme in this game, Role Play in my opinion is what keeps a server alive and growing. +1

 

[Shucky]

I support every single idea mentioned in this post. This is a Role Playing Game and more efforts should be made to promote that theme in this game, Role Play in my opinion is what keeps a server alive and growing. +1

Your comment inspired me to address another potentially significant aspect of role-play, the production of inspiring works of visual and performance art. Inspiration would be a moderately long boost to skills. It could come in a variety of forms with possibly stackable effects. Inspirational works would take time to craft, the same as gardening, where non-inspirational works could be crafted instantly. Begging skill could be a primary determining factor in composing and performing, as it relates to social intelligence and persuasion:

high begging plus high intelligence for writing (devotional, novels, plays, choreography), painting, acting, speaking
high begging plus high dexterity for juggling, prestidigitation
high begging plus moderately high strength and dexterity for dancing, acrobatics
high begging, stoneworking, high dexterity and intelligence for sculpting
high begging, music, moderately high intelligence for singing, composing music
high music, begging, high dexterity and intelligence for inspiring music performance

Viewing works of art and reading literature would be one level of inspiration, but watching solo performances and ensembles could have greater and longer effects. Composers' karma, the nature of the work (virtue/heroism vs drama/comedy vs debauchery/horror), performer's karma, the nature of the performance (noble, ordinary, profane), and the audience member's karma could all determine the effectiveness of the performance or work of art. Visual art and performance art inspirational effects could stack. Successful performances and patronizing arts could increase your fame, where begging would decrease it. Fancy clothes and jewelry could improve an artist's or performers effectiveness, while ordinary clothes would be more effective for begging.

Further to the idea of NPC henchmen, they could be limited in number by your fame level, their fame level would have to be lower than yours, and their loyalty could depend on their pay and the difference between their karma and yours. You could ask them to do a broader variety of things than pets can, such as pickpocketing, looting, donating, crafting, using a certain skill. If you fail, they may refuse the order or quit following or even attack you, depending on the order and their karma. If you succeed, their karma could adjust up or down. They might make demands, complain or praise you. They could offer advice or knowledge of events. Conversing with them might entertain and inform.

I envision waking up well-rested from bed in my castle, getting some inspiration from reading or admiring works of art, then going off to gather my henchmen, sitting and chatting together over drinks and food at the tavern to hear the latest rumors and to get refreshed, catching a service or performance for more inspiration, then heading out for a campaign of heroics or mayhem. Ah, good times!

I also envision building up talent by practice, then building fame by successful performances, then turning your skill and fame into the creation of works that are valued by virtue of your skill and fame. We could spawn a Michelangelo, a Shakespeare, a Beethoven. I see the creation of powerful works in player-owned museums or performed by soloists and ensembles, inspiring us to new heights of virtue and villainy!

 

[Drake Roberts]

Your comment inspired me to address another potentially significant aspect of role-play, the production of inspiring works of visual and performance art. Inspiration would be a moderately long boost to skills. It could come in a variety of forms with possibly stackable effects. Inspirational works would take time to craft, the same as gardening, where non-inspirational works could be crafted instantly. Begging skill could be a primary determining factor in composing and performing, as it relates to social intelligence and persuasion:

high begging plus high intelligence for writing (devotional, novels, plays, choreography), painting, acting, speaking
high begging plus high dexterity for juggling, prestidigitation
high begging plus moderately high strength and dexterity for dancing, acrobatics
high begging, stoneworking, high dexterity and intelligence for sculpting
high begging, music, moderately high intelligence for singing, composing music
high music, begging, high dexterity and intelligence for inspiring music performance

Viewing works of art and reading literature would be one level of inspiration, but watching solo performances and ensembles could have greater and longer effects. Composers' karma, the nature of the work (virtue/heroism vs drama/comedy vs debauchery/horror), performer's karma, the nature of the performance (noble, ordinary, profane), and the audience member's karma could all determine the effectiveness of the performance or work of art. Visual art and performance art inspirational effects could stack. Successful performances and patronizing arts could increase your fame, where begging would decrease it. Fancy clothes and jewelry could improve an artist's or performers effectiveness, while ordinary clothes would be more effective for begging.

Further to the idea of NPC henchmen, they could be limited in number by your fame level, their fame level would have to be lower than yours, and their loyalty could depend on their pay and the difference between their karma and yours. You could ask them to do a broader variety of things than pets can, such as pickpocketing, looting, donating, crafting, using a certain skill. If you fail, they may refuse the order or quit following or even attack you, depending on the order and their karma. If you succeed, their karma could adjust up or down. They might make demands, complain or praise you. They could offer advice or knowledge of events. Conversing with them might entertain and inform.

I envision waking up well-rested from bed in my castle, getting some inspiration from reading or admiring works of art, then going off to gather my henchmen, sitting and chatting together over drinks and food at the tavern to hear the latest rumors and to get refreshed, catching a service or performance for more inspiration, then heading out for a campaign of heroics or mayhem. Ah, good times!

I also envision building up talent by practice, then building fame by successful performances, then turning your skill and fame into the creation of works that are valued by virtue of your skill and fame. We could spawn a Michelangelo, a Shakespeare, a Beethoven. I see the creation of powerful works in player-owned museums or performed by soloists and ensembles, inspiring us to new heights of virtue and villainy!

That sounds bad ass.. and like a totally new game... Not a modification for a 16 year old java based game. I think triage is probably right... You are talking about a complete rewrite of the game from the bottom up. Cool ideas though

 

[Shucky]

You are talking about a complete rewrite of the game from the bottom up. Cool ideas though

I think I dream big having seen them accomplish so many amazing things on UOF already. I get excited by the prospect of a UO that is even more immersive and more interactive and with more options for play style. I would be happy enough if they read this thread and considered at least some of what is discussed. Judging from the response, there is at least some interest out there for that type of game.

 

[tr1age]

Also if this took off to a large scale and got steam sale recognition it would need to be legal we sometimes forget this is not 100% sanctioned. When it brings in money ea will start to get greedy haaha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bromista]

Just an observation:
Those who make suggestions to improve their current environment are forward-thinking people.

Those who are content with stagnation and scoff at forward-thinking people are sheep.

Keep doing what you're doing Shucky.

 

[Shucky]

The underlying philosophy is to create conditions favorable for RP and PVM players, so that they are present and active out in the wilds, thereby providing enough fodder for those of evil intent. There should be a reasonable chance for them to survive hostile players coming from offscreen, provided they are alert and quick to start casting recall. So, if a lot of these ideas sound trammie, understand this underlying purpose. A shard is like an ecosystem. It might survive loss of predators (there will always be a few, anyhow), but not as long if it loses the herds of prey.

I think improving RP elements something along the lines of my suggestions would give things a real boost.

 

[Schmitty2364]

This topic is great and I hope to eventually see some of this happen somewhere

 

[Shucky]

This topic is great and I hope to eventually see some of this happen somewhere

Time and again over the last year or so, I've given thought to what would really revolutionize and revitalize UO. By far, I think my best ideas yet are the introduction of the ability to gather npc henchman based on your fame, and to motivate them by a combination of fame and "begging" skill. Begging skill would be renamed as Influencing or the like, and is a measure of your skill to manipulate or motivate beings of higher than animal intelligence (humans, demi-humans, humanoids, or similarly intelligent beings). The skill could still be trained by begging, but each beg should lower fame if not karma. Rather, it would be preferable to try to inspire or entertain others, by speaking, singing, acting, dancing, acrobatics, juggling, etc. Your other skills and stats, the type and style of performance, and the karma and intelligence of the target audience, would determine your success. Successful attempts would raise your skill and fame, and the target would get benefits from inspiration, and the opportunity to raise or lower karma by paying you; failure to inspire would only lower the performer's fame. In theory, someone would be able to raise their fame through superior influence, which in turn would allow them to gather more henchman, just as if they gained their fame in the conventional way. You would also lose some fame whenever henchman die. In addition, I described earlier how dedicated effort to create works of art and literature, for items or compositions that could inspire, or for use by ensembles to get superior results, would encourage the use of places such as the theater, the conservatory, and other structures dedicated to inspiration.

There would be no change for those who prefer no role-play, but there should be a benefit for those who would prefer to take the time for their avatar to be well-rested, sated and inspired for superior performance. Being tired, thirsty, hungry, sick or excessively hot/cold would be distractions that would negatively effect skills until rectified, while being inspired would have positive impact on skills to varying extent and duration. Cooking and brewing would become valued as the more effective foods and brews would require higher skill to craft. Some players would devote time, as for gardening, to craft writings, paintings and sculptures that would be inspirational and increase their fame when used.

I don't know about the code, but from a philosophical standpoint, it isn't too much of a departure. You can tame pets and you need to keep them loyal, so why not henchman? You can get npcs to give you money, why not use that skill to motivate more than that? You can craft foods and brews, as well as clothing, so why not have them be useful in the way we would expect them to be? The same goes for beds (and bedrolls), and why not have diseases (and not just poison) to be cured by herbal medicines crafted by alchemists using apparatus?

 

[Shucky]

Further to the idea of henchmen, which would be in most respects much like pets, instead of dropping them off at the stable, you would drop them off at the inn, and you would pay their salary for the interim when you retrieve them again. If your fame dropped, you would only be able to retireve or resurrect up to your current limit based on your fame.

Karma would also restrict which NPCs and humanoids (undead?) you could recruit and retain, whereby neutral karma players would have the most flexibility. Some followers might be inclined to fight each other if their karma is several categories apart, but the player could also attempt to command actions that will adjust the follower's karma if the command succeeds.