GM Hiding/Stealth Vs 0 Tracking

[TheFallen]

Wow why is this thread still going?

0 tracking at 33% success rate with current mechanics or. ..

Need tracking to track and;
Need to activate to use,
After a skill delay,
Re activate every 8 ish steps,
Immediately become visible when activating stealing,
And stealing skill use timers doesn't start to recount until a steal is attempted.

Now anyone really want the latter?
Not me. Thieves here are great against low numbers and can even beat great odds if skilled enough. With the later you might survive the occasional 1v1 but forget taking something when a group of people are around because you will be dead before you can even activate hiding.

 

[Kaliron Oceania]

You don't understand my argument because you are *possibly* a player who uses stealth around towns and short hop locations where stealth is of limited importance

I use my stealth skill not even on a thief freely stealting around brit stealing bandages, I using a character in PvP.

The reason i don't understand your argument is because you're writing a wall of text with no substance in it.

Take this paragraph for example

If you change tracking so it requires a higher skill level, reds/blue PK's may potentially abuse the fuck out of it, tamers, bards, warriors alike will be under a constant state of paranoia, because its completely impossible to implement tracking into their already jammed skill list. If you can not shake off someone who has already tracked you, then perhaps implementing a little magery into your mix, IE the TELEPORT spell.

You started off arguing that if it is changed it will potentially be abused, but then give no reason or evidence it will be abused but then go on rambling that that people cant fit it into their templates? You're also pointing out a bigger problem that if i want to beat 0 tracking i now need Hiding/Stealth AND Magery? THREE skills to beat 0 of tracking?

All this talk about "But but but, 200 skill points are lost to a 0 skilled skill" "Its unfair that someone with 0 *correction 20 skill* in tracking can track me" Yeah they can, but you can also stealth around the entire bloody map unnoticed without stopping for a cup of coffee.

For starters, it is ZERO skill invested into your template to get the tracking, Not the 20 shown skill that your trying to correct it too.

no amount of crying will change the fact that you have contributed in making stealth emergency use only.

As the skill is, i don't use it in emergencies because any PvPer with half a brain will use tracking as soon as you hide and cast reveal. Now i just hide, hit my ethy and have a greater chance of surviving if i run off

 

[Darkarna]

I use my stealth skill not even on a thief freely stealting around brit stealing bandages, I using a character in PvP.

The reason i don't understand your argument is because you're writing a wall of text with no substance in it.

You started off arguing that if it is changed it will potentially be abused, but then give no reason or evidence it will be abused but then go on rambling that that people cant fit it into their templates? You're also pointing out a bigger problem that if i want to beat 0 tracking i now need Hiding/Stealth AND Magery? THREE skills to beat 0 of tracking?

Ahhh so you are not a thief and don't use stealth as a thief. Grand reasoning there, so to other thieves who MIGHT find the changes damaging to their character, fuck them and learn to deal with it? Does this sound about right what you are implying?

Tell ya what since you *seem* to lack the ability of foresight I can provide a scenario with 'substance' where the changes to stealth may have an impact : -

Warrior/Bard/Ranger *choose class* farming away as they do, *Remember an important fact here, empty dungeons make for a boring experience*, Mr or Mrs Murderer fully equipped with stealth and whatnot, stealth's into the vicinity and plans an attack. Unbeknownst to the unsuspecting 'farmer' *He/she does not have the skills to track due to changes*, the RED is right next to them and begins to unleash death on their prey. Of course this does not mean the victim will die, but the chances are significantly increased.

Okay, let's copy the above but this time, let us add a team of PK's, using the same method *which can apply to the current way of things but at least now, there is a chance to detect the threat early.* So now we have three or four reds using stealth, move close to the same victim and unleash death on their victim. This time the chances of said victim decreases exponentially further.

The above in general is theory and for love of god, because you PVP does not mean the entire fucking server has to follow suit because you 'PVP'. Your lack of foresight is frightening at best,

 

[Kaliron Oceania]

I sorry but giving substance to your argument isn't making up a fictitious scenario that doesn't even happen. I can guarantee you that 99% of PKs roaming dungeons are not stealthing in and killing people. Also i can guarantee you that when people are farming daemons/dragons *choose monster* they are not spamming tracking in defense that someone could possibly stealth up on them.

Would you like a scenario that does happen? In fact happens every day? A thief steals something and utilizes his 200skill points only to be revealed by someone with 0 tracking. A group of PKs are chasing you and you gain a screen on them and use your 100 hiding, only for them to use 0 tracking and reveal you.

One thing id like to add before i leave this thread, Is i asked for tracking vs hiding to be look at. You're the one who has gone off on a tirade saying "but then we will have to count steps wah wah". Who's to say a fix to tracking cant be implemented with the current form of stealth? No one has said if they fixed this that stealth would be changed in any way.

 

[thestand]

I sorry but giving substance to your argument isn't making up a fictitious scenario that doesn't even happen. I can guarantee you that 99% of PKs roaming dungeons are not stealthing in and killing people. Also i can guarantee you that when people are farming daemons/dragons *choose monster* they are not spamming tracking in defense that someone could possibly stealth up on them.

Actually, both those scenarios are common occurrences. I have a 5x mage stealther. I also have a bard and I might not spam tracking but I do use it about once a minute. If they change how stealth works I probably would not use my 5x stealth char anymore. If they change tracking I'll drop archery on my bard and pick up gm mage eval med and I'll be casting reveal every 30 seconds.

 

[Darkarna]

I sorry but giving substance to your argument isn't making up a fictitious scenario that doesn't even happen. I can guarantee you that 99% of PKs roaming dungeons are not stealthing in and killing people. Also i can guarantee you that when people are farming daemons/dragons *choose monster* they are not spamming tracking in defense that someone could possibly stealth up on them.

So, I provide a perfectly reasonable, potential thorn in the side example and you throw it back spouting that its based around fiction? Let me try a different angle of things, increase poisoning so it deals the same poison levels as a silver serpent when used on a weapon or the spell itself. Imagine how many builds would change to cater for poisoning just to get that extreme advantage. I have just made this up, fictitious as you would put it but foresight would predict correctly that the following change would in-fact break the game until everything else is balanced to compensate. I am not saying that changing stealth would break the game, I am just saying it could have an impact.

This unfortunately, is your lack of knowledge on this server. A fair amount of players use tracking when farming for the obvious reasons already discussed, a change surrounding tracking and stealth would need to be fine tuned, very finely tuned.

Would you like a scenario that does happen? In fact happens every day? A thief steals something and utilizes his 200skill points only to be revealed by someone with 0 tracking. A group of PKs are chasing you and you gain a screen on them and use your 100 hiding, only for them to use 0 tracking and reveal you.

I completely understand where you are coming from, to the level I agree with what you have said here, but again, as it stands with the current system this believe it or not is fair in favor of stealth. Hard to believe really, right?

One thing id like to add before i leave this thread, Is i asked for tracking vs hiding to be look at. You're the one who has gone off on a tirade saying "but then we will have to count steps wah wah". Who's to say a fix to tracking cant be implemented with the current form of stealth? No one has said if they fixed this that stealth would be changed in any way.

Razor has a lovely thing which allows stealth steps to be shown as already mentioned here, the reason why I defend as I have done is because I believe I can see another nerf to the thief class if stealth ever got changed back to how it was originally. Karl Sagan has a great way to resolve the tracking issue without unbalancing things and if this was to be implemented, then we can all get back to our own little worlds.

 

[KaganV]

Honestly, playing a little more, I'll have to say that stealth is pretty solid even with 0 tracking. All you really have to do is bide your time and don't take the chance when you are revealed and seen. I rarely die if I try to play it smart. I still don't like the idea of having a skill at zero working the way it does(and I liked Sagan's idea) but I will say the favor is in stealth. I'm curious though, are there any mobs that can reveal stealthers? I avoided phoenixes out of fear of being revealed for some time, but they don't seem to have an aura or anything. Hell, I'm surprised traps don't even reveal me.

 

[Hogan]

Everyone cries for changes way too much. Anytime someone doesn't like something it must be changed!!!!! IT MUST BE BALANCED!!!!!

In my opinion that philosophy of constantly changing things for people who think the game is unfair is why i left UO a long time ago. It's not fair i need protection and cant go into a dungeon or walk out of town without getting killed ---> Trammel, except here its ----> Fix the skills or nerf this and that.

 

[Dellan]

Honestly, playing a little more, I'll have to say that stealth is pretty solid even with 0 tracking. All you really have to do is bide your time and don't take the chance when you are revealed and seen. I rarely die if I try to play it smart. I still don't like the idea of having a skill at zero working the way it does(and I liked Sagan's idea) but I will say the favor is in stealth. I'm curious though, are there any mobs that can reveal stealthers? I avoided phoenixes out of fear of being revealed for some time, but they don't seem to have an aura or anything. Hell, I'm surprised traps don't even reveal me.

They used to do that on uoforever, magic mobs.. Once they caught a sight of you they threw a reveal on your location.. Nasty.

While 0 tracking issue pisses me off with its 60% chance to find GM stealther, I do admit that stealth without cooldown is way, way better than old way. Things take ages, and in many cases you won't be able to sneak out of trouble, unlike now. Still, it's odd. To be honest, with way how UO's skills work.. There shouldn't be anything like 0 skill working on GM sneaks, there should be more players with GM tracking/detect. I would so love to have full combat template on my stealther, but I can't... Can you please buff fencing so I can one shot kill someone from stealth? You won't... that's one of UO's things - you can't be everything.

 

[gofer]

Honestly, playing a little more, I'll have to say that stealth is pretty solid even with 0 tracking. All you really have to do is bide your time and don't take the chance when you are revealed and seen. I rarely die if I try to play it smart. I still don't like the idea of having a skill at zero working the way it does(and I liked Sagan's idea) but I will say the favor is in stealth. I'm curious though, are there any mobs that can reveal stealthers? I avoided phoenixes out of fear of being revealed for some time, but they don't seem to have an aura or anything. Hell, I'm surprised traps don't even reveal me.

In Khaldun, there is a weak mob whose purpose is to reveal stealthers. Been a while since I have ventured out to Khaldun, but I believe they were implemented on UOF as well.

 

[Nanashi]

In Khaldun, there is a weak mob whose purpose is to reveal stealthers. Been a while since I have ventured out to Khaldun, but I believe they were implemented on UOF as well.

It is true, I actually went in their with my Dungeon crawler and I think it might be the damn Chaos spirits that cast reveal on yee.

 

[gofer]

It is true, I actually went in their with my Dungeon crawler and I think it might be the damn Chaos spirits that cast reveal on yee.

Shadow fiends I think was the name.

 

[edw3rdwood]

180 invested points of hiding/stealth should not be negated by 0 invested points.

Definitely agree. There is already the mage spell Reveal (but it costs regs/has cast time), but for the Tracking skill itself to be redundant is just....pointless. It should be 1 tile for every 10 points in the skill, very simple.

 

[Armand]

Definitely agree. There is already the mage spell Reveal (but it costs regs/has cast time), but for the Tracking skill itself to be redundant is just....pointless. It should be 1 tile for every 10 points in the skill, very simple.

I have 0 sympathy for players that play thieves. Playing a thief has the potential for the greatest reward with almost 0 risk involved. You can run around nekid carrying little to no supplies and steal high end weapons scrolls, and other valuables. I don't lose any sleep when thieves get nerfed for the reasons I stated.

 

[Karl Sagan]

I have 0 sympathy for players that play thieves. Playing a thief has the potential for the greatest reward with almost 0 risk involved. You can run around nekid carrying little to no supplies and steal high end weapons scrolls, and other valuables. I don't lose any sleep when thieves get nerfed for the reasons I stated.

The only people that think this have never played thieves. It's a lot of time investment. Stalking players instead of farming dungeons.

 

[Dellan]

I have 0 sympathy for players that play thieves. Playing a thief has the potential for the greatest reward with almost 0 risk involved. You can run around nekid carrying little to no supplies and steal high end weapons scrolls, and other valuables. I don't lose any sleep when thieves get nerfed for the reasons I stated.

I have 0 sympathy for people that want to nerf thieves even though they never played them.

By the way, only WBB trash runs around nekid. And if you get robbed at WBB, well... then you're just plain dumb, everyone knows what that place is. Everyone from my guild runs with pots, pouches and regs, so don't talk about little to no supplies. Also, playing thief is about luck, my good man. Just because you got robbed and lost your precious PS, it doesn't mean thief that stole it has such luck every time. Same as high end anything. You wouldn't want to know ratio of good stuff / backpacks snooped. As Karl said, it's time investment, and most of us are broke, while you make 100k per hour, while you get all fuzzy because someone stole one thing from you..

 

[KaganV]

In Khaldun, there is a weak mob whose purpose is to reveal stealthers. Been a while since I have ventured out to Khaldun, but I believe they were implemented on UOF as well.

That's cool, I think things like that make it interesting because you have to be careful. I think ice and snow elementals have the aura ability I was speaking about.

 

[halygon]

That's cool, I think things like that make it interesting because you have to be careful. I think ice and snow elementals have the aura ability I was speaking about.

So do ice fiends.

 

[Armand]

The only people that think this have never played thieves. It's a lot of time investment. Stalking players instead of farming dungeons.

So there is a large amou

I have 0 sympathy for people that want to nerf thieves even though they never played them.

By the way, only WBB trash runs around nekid. And if you get robbed at WBB, well... then you're just plain dumb, everyone knows what that place is. Everyone from my guild runs with pots, pouches and regs, so don't talk about little to no supplies. Also, playing thief is about luck, my good man. Just because you got robbed and lost your precious PS, it doesn't mean thief that stole it has such luck every time. Same as high end anything. You wouldn't want to know ratio of good stuff / backpacks snooped. As Karl said, it's time investment, and most of us are broke, while you make 100k per hour, while you get all fuzzy because someone stole one thing from you..

You mad bro? I haven't actually played a thief as Karl stated. The reason I don't is because it seems most are like the ones you mentioned that hang out at wbb. I did get a couple things stolen in the past before I researched and figured out how to counter it. That isn't the reason I made the post I did. I also didn't make the post because I've had a PS stolen from me. I see your angle though trying to come at me like I'm a trammy but I'm not. I wasn't offensive or ignorant in my post as you have chosen to be. You are exactly though the type of personality that most scrubby wwb thieves tend to have. So I'm not surprised at all by your response. Karl was at least respectful and well spoken in what he said. I was simply speaking my mind on how I feel in general towards thieves.

 

[Armand]

The only people that think this have never played thieves. It's a lot of time investment. Stalking players instead of farming dungeons.

I was simply giving some reasons to why I don't care for most thieves on general and when I said I don't lose sleep over it I basically saying that I didn't really have an opinion either way to weather they are nerfed or not. I don't get bent out of shape either way when classes or buffed, nerfed, or whatever. I just roll with the punches. I love this server. I'm a pre trammel guy all the way. I just think a lot of thieves are no talent scumbags.