Stealing - Déjà vu.

[Darkarna]

Memory lane, one of those paths we take from time to time to relive a certain experience which we cherished, an experience where we held the answers to any problem that we may have been faced with, a time when everything seemed just perfect. Unless you were a thief in Ultima Online of course.

Never have I seen a class in any game reduced so drastically to cater for the crying hoards but now, due to a different reason, blatant cheats. Daily, I hear the same thing being said over and over, "I am training a thief", what purpose are you making a thief for? To power up your easyuo erm, uosteam script? Did you think that your greedy persona would be able to run around champion spawns stealing scripts automatically you pathetic, inbred, skill less twat? No one can blame the staff for implementing such a fix, it really needed to be addressed as quickly as possible, but this change has hurt NOT only the cheats, but also legitimate thieves also. I SAID this would happen, shit, I have been a thief in Ultima Online for FIFTEEN years and guess what, another change.

Let me guess what will be said next, "If you have been a thief for fifteen years, learn to evolve" yeah that is the easiest response to this thread and I can simply reply by saying "This change does not affect me really, maybe skill scrolls but thats it" but I can also reply and say, "Remove bonded status from pets for tamers when the pet has died two times, increase the cool down for provoke to 20 seconds, make stat loss perma like it used to be, double the wear of weapons and armor etc " What will the response be? NO NO NO, doing that WILL ruin my class blah blah blah and is no different to how legitimate thieves, feel.

I still say that all suspected thieves *even now* should be permanently turned red with no chance of joining the thieves guild again and named - shamed.

Again, this thread is not in anyway an attack to the staff here, but it certainly is an attack to cheats in general to this once great game.

 

[Kith kannen]

You have no idea how sorry I feel for legitimate thieves...there seem to be more than a few of you here and the powerscroll cheat has impacted true thieves a lot more than it should. You have a very legit gripe and again my apologies as I was certainly one of the players asking for a fix.

I don't think the change effects skill scrolls though so maybe it won't impact you so negatively?

 

[Darkarna]

You have no idea how sorry I feel for legitimate thieves...there seem to be more than a few of you here and the powerscroll cheat has impacted true thieves a lot more than it should. You have a very legit gripe and again my apologies as I was certainly one of the players asking for a fix.

I don't think the change effects skill scrolls though so maybe it won't impact you so negatively?

Thank you for your concern, it does impact on skill scrolls also. To be honest though its just about evolving to the new changes, does not change the fact that once again, the thief has been modified because of idiots who do not and never will, have the skill needed to play this wonderful class right.

I also asked for the fix myself, it was needed regardless how I feel.

 

[Hanebu]

I really like the work the staff is doing. But the last patch was just bad. Thieves are really fucked now. They 'fixed' the dying tubs, you are not able to dye the cool colors anymore (it was working that way over a year!)


And the problem is, there are not enough thieves to complain. If you look over to the pot throwing thread there was much more resistance...

Today is a bad day...

 

[Kith kannen]

They need to throw you guys a bone...some thief achievements or something...I know it won't replace what was taken but they should do something to keep LEGIT thieves happy.

 

[Karl Sagan]

You know what @Darkarna - I can blame the devs for making this 'fix'. It's stupid and shortsighted and lazy. The idea that any thief could steal a PS and survive without being able to beat feet out of there...SMH. Hey @Bryce tracking is still working at 0, so thanks for making it so we can stealth 5 steps before getting revealed - even if we steal a PS in town??

How many other fixes were proposed that wouldn't involve gimping thieves like this? Delay on snoop, unable to steal PS for 5 secs after they spawn, UOsteam changes, etc etc,

Another wonderful 'fix' that serves to do nothing but take the fun away from one type of player and make it easy for another type. Best interests of the server my ass.

e: skill scrolls as well HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

 

[Darkarna]

You know what @Darkarna - I can blame the devs for making this 'fix'. It's stupid and shortsighted and lazy. The idea that any thief could steal a PS and survive without being able to beat feet out of there...SMH. Hey @Bryce tracking is still working at 0, so thanks for making it so we can stealth 5 steps before getting revealed - even if we steal a PS in town??

How many other fixes were proposed that wouldn't involve gimping thieves like this? Delay on snoop, unable to steal PS for 5 secs after they spawn, UOsteam changes, etc etc,

Another wonderful 'fix' that serves to do nothing but take the fun away from one type of player and make it easy for another type. Best interests of the server my ass.

e: skill scrolls as well HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

Again, it is one of those things. Perhaps the whole thing has been implemented without much thought, perhaps it is lazy, a fix was needed and this hopefully, is a temp fix until something else can be used. I could have easily been more aggressive in my approach towards this, but ultimately that will end up getting this thread locked. As diplomatic as I can be, does not hide the fact of displeasure towards this. You have got a point though, tracking should be fixed and so should reveal to compensate for this blow to the thief if indeed, this fix is here to stay.

 

[Blaine the Gypsy]

I'm a legit thief and I don't mind the changes at all. However now the focus of this stupidity script will go to other items.

 

[Kaliron Oceania]

They definitely need to fix tracking @ 0 being able to track a thief with GM Hiding/Stealth.

 

[Drake Roberts]

I really hope this isn't the end all solution for this.. The script can still be used by 5x thieves to automatically go after specific regs/bandages or whatever, instantly and on the fly, while dumping/attacking their target (which is how I first heard about the script and how it was being used). It really sucks that legit players are being punished because of some scripters.. and it isn't as if this script is the only outrageous script that is fully automated that steam is capable of using.

When I saw the changes, I said there is no way in hell a legit thief (or even a scripter) will ever be able to pull off a successful steal on a PS and survive.. You would never be able to pre queue your steal for 10 seconds in a situation like at champ spawns where everyone is running around at the end trying to avoid theft, so that when you are dismounted (if you even successfully steal the PS now instead of failing the attempt) you can hide and stealth away.. Basically.. If some how you manage to "win" the 50/50 dice roll and steal the PS, you will be dismounted and left as a grey sitting duck... unable to remount for 1 minute.. and unable to hide for 10 seconds... Or in other words.. You will surely die.

I guess more stealable rares could be added, that require 0 stealing and do not even require you to be in the thieves guild to steal.. but let's say they make rares require you have stealing skill and be in the thieves guild.. there is no player vs player interaction in stealing those rares. In other words.. it is boring as hell and usually comes down to the person who finds out the timers/locations first, getting a huge advantage over everyone else and hoarding them all... And after what happened to my stealable rares the last time I spent hours searching for them.. Yeah, no thanks.. I have already been fooled once with that.. I'm not wasting my time again with that shit only to have my hours spent wasted and all my shit removed/deleted.



I hope they still make it a huge priority to make that new assist program that would replace razor and steam. Because I am tired of all these weak ass gimps fucking shit up for legit players, thinking they are good.. You aren't good. That is why you cry and quit when they take away your crutches.. and if I am a rat for trying to expose this bs that is going on with these scripts, then I guess that makes you a ***** made gimp.

 

[Violence]

I think the changes are mostly good and are certainly in the right direction, but we'll need to see them in actual practice on the live server before a proper judgement is made.

Remember, if the change is not working, the staff can always make tweaks or go back to the drawing board.

 

[Bryce]

Again, it is one of those things. Perhaps the whole thing has been implemented without much thought, perhaps it is lazy, a fix was needed and this hopefully, is a temp fix until something else can be used. I could have easily been more aggressive in my approach towards this, but ultimately that will end up getting this thread locked. As diplomatic as I can be, does not hide the fact of displeasure towards this. You have got a point though, tracking should be fixed and so should reveal to compensate for this blow to the thief if indeed, this fix is here to stay.

I understand your frustration in the matter. This is a fix for *now* to combat the scripters. Hence why we are actively trying to hire an assistant creator.

The skillscrolls thing was a by-product and will not fit the same criteria as powerscrolls upon next restart.


MANY avenues were explored in the weeks we spent on this. There is NOTHING lazy about it. The 'lazy' fixes would have had far greater backlashes. This isn't something we spent 5 minutes on and said "meh, screw thieves". To say it was implemented without much thought or lazy is a bit insulting.

One of the "fixes" we had ready to go before undergoing more testing with the actual script itself, was to add a delay from snoop->steal. To bring the script on par with human reaction time. However, the way the script/game mechanics function, this was useless. Clients are sent packets of all items on screen, even before they're "snooped/discovered". This automated program was pre-setting items to "last target" from 10-15 tiles away without the player even knowing of their existence, you run by someone, and it nabs the pre-set itemid's. This is beyond ridiculous, and any defense of such is just as ludicrous. Steam can't be altered on our end either, so that was quashed. There is almost NO way to punish the scripters without punishing the legits themselves. The only other options would have been to make powerscrolls unstealable, or to remove Steam.

As was posted in the patch notes, I'll iterate it here once more; instead of making them unstealable, a different dynamic was added. If people want to recall into a champ without engaging in pvp and hit one-two buttons for a 500k-6mil profit, they won't be able to do so on the "fly-by".

I'll take a look at Tracking/other options to try to give a buff back to players that play their characters legitimately.

But to think that we just randomly came across a solution and didn't weigh it against all possible repercussions, or explore other avenues is a little insulting given the time we put into each matter that needs addressing.

 

[Drake Roberts]

I can vouch for Bryce, that this was anything but a lazy decision. Even though the staff don't like the capabilities that steam has, he is right.. The lazy decision would have been to just throw out steam all together, without another assist program to offer as an alternative other than razor.. We all saw what happened the last time Steam was banned.. No one wants the population to take a huge hit.. At the same time, they need to do something Now, to stop the people scripting from being able to amass millions with fully automated scripts. They already know that there is scripts out there, including the stealing one, that are being used for PVP purposes.. However, that side of the problem doesn't have ramifications for the economy..

They tried to come up with tons of other ideas to be able to combat this script.. I tried to come up with ideas too.., but the script was bypassing all the changes they were trying to make.. I don't like this solution myself.. I don't think anyone does.. but the alternative was to just let the scripters continue stealing PS's worth millions.. and they simply could not sit back and let this bullshit continue.. It was already having a negative impact on the server and you could see this with how few champ spawns were being done recently, compared to before.

I know one thing for sure.. Shane, Bryce and the rest of the staff have the best interest of the server in mind.. Which is why Shane is investing in the new assistant program.. Like others have said.. Changes can be undone.. and maybe once we have a new assistant program for the server, things could be restored back to normal.

It just feels shitty right now because legit players who aren't using these automated scripts are being effected greatly by this.. I don't even actively steal nearly as much as I used to.. and I still feel crushed by this nerf happening to our class.