A Possible Solution to The Problem of PvP

[Winstonian]

its just to easy to abuse and its impossible w/o having staff using a unreasonable amount of time monitor it.

Which is why the concept would be developed and refined until both weren't true.

We've already established a daily cap for damage done against a single target. This makes it impossible to macro for any substantial gain. It would only work for militia characters, so there are the added account restrictions. There are plenty of modifications that can be made to prevent as much, if not all, of any significant exploitation.

 

[K A Z]

Which is why the concept would be developed and refined until both weren't true.

We've already established a daily cap for damage done against a single target. This makes it impossible to macro for any substantial gain. It would only work for militia characters, so there are the added account restrictions. There are plenty of modifications that can be made to prevent as much, if not all, of any significant exploitation.

what if me and my guild decided to have a reward circle-jerk and just attack each other all day long? Systems like this will not work, I think that you should believe us. There have been more thought through systems on UO servers that were totally exploited the shit out of.

 

[Winstonian]

what if me and my guild decided to have a reward circle-jerk and just attack each other all day long? Systems like this will not work, I think that you should believe us. There have been more thought through systems on UO servers that were totally exploited the shit out of.

You and your guild were in warring guilds and decided to attack each other "all day", reaching the relatively low damage cap for each player you attacked. You and your guild would likely finish in ranks 80-100 of the participating PvPers on the server, would have a chance to gain 2k gold, and wasted all day doing it. It sounds like you wasted lots of time trying to exploit a system for minimal gain, when simply... playing... would have netted you more.

 

[K A Z]

You and your guild were in warring guilds and decided to attack each other "all day", reaching the relatively low damage cap for each player you attacked. You and your guild would likely finish in ranks 80-100 of the participating PvPers on the server, would have a chance to gain 2k gold, and wasted all day doing it. It sounds like you wasted lots of time trying to exploit a system for minimal gain, when simply... playing... would have netted you more.

will you code all this? I mean in theory i'm all in for OP rewards for little challenging PVP but I do not think that all this time should be wasted in a system that only MAYBE attracts new players to PVP. Maybe we could teach new players that defending their champ spawns helps significantly with receiving PSs and relics.. now THAT would boost PVP, help new players and actually is an INCENTIVE that is already in the game!

 

[Winstonian]

will you code all this? I mean in theory i'm all in for OP rewards for little challenging PVP but I do not think that all this time should be wasted in a system that only MAYBE attracts new players to PVP. Maybe we could teach new players that defending their champ spawns helps significantly with receiving PSs and relics.. now THAT would boost PVP, help new players and actually is an INCENTIVE that is already in the game!

Because not everyone wants to fight groups of organized PvPers with PvM chars? Because that's not fun for a lot of people, despite how easy and rewarding it is to the reds? Of course, champ spawn PvP is good for UOF, but it doesn't mean that structured PvP should be reserved for groups and groups only. Casual players should have a place in structured PvP, and a suggestion like this provides that. You're against the OP rewards? They can be lowered appropriately.

But, of course, the system suits you now, so there's no incentive for you to support a system that "MAYBE attracts new players to PvP". The truth is that attracting new players to PvP is a vast improvement for a good chunk of the other players here, and will help grow UOF. Those benefits are good for you, both short and long term.

 

[K A Z]

Because not everyone wants to fight groups of organized PvPers with PvM chars? Because that's not fun for a lot of people, despite how easy and rewarding it is to the reds? Of course, champ spawn PvP is good for UOF, but it doesn't mean that structured PvP should be reserved for groups and groups only. Casual players should have a place in structured PvP, and a suggestion like this provides that. You're against the OP rewards? They can be lowered appropriately.

But, of course, the system suits you now, so there's no incentive for you to support a system that "MAYBE attracts new players to PvP". The truth is that attracting new players to PvP is a vast improvement for a good chunk of the other players here, and will help grow UOF. Those benefits are good for you, both short and long term.

1. Why do these people not log on PVP chars? Isn't everyone allowed to have 3 accounts? It's so easy to learn to defend your champ spawn and it'd REALLY help new players if they'd learn it quick!

2. Yea, it suits me. And I do not think that we need yet another system that vet players will exploit the shit out of while new players will still not feel the want to get ganked over and over and over again. Structured PVP (militias in this case) are usually not a good place to learn PVP. PVP is learned in the pits or through red vs blue encounters IMO. You can change systems all you want, you cant change player mentality.

 

[Winstonian]

1. Why do these people not log on PVP chars? Isn't everyone allowed to have 3 accounts? It's so easy to learn to defend your champ spawn and it'd REALLY help new players if they'd learn it quick!

2. Yea, it suits me. And I do not think that we need yet another system that vet players will exploit the shit out of while new players will still not feel the want to get ganked over and over and over again. Structured PVP (militias in this case) are usually not a good place to learn PVP. PVP is learned in the pits or through red vs blue encounters IMO. You can change systems all you want, you cant change player mentality.

I hate when vet players exploit the "shit" out of a new system for a chance at an almost irrelevant reward.

The part in bold is true for UOF, but is not true for UO throughout the years (which you've claimed I know nothing about). Structured PvP should be a place for both casual and group PvP. Making UOF reflect that would grow this shard.

 

[AreYouKidden]

The worry about exploitation is one of the reasons I don't think giving rewards to the top 5 players by damage, or anything else works. I personally think it needs to be a weighted lottery, much like the Altar rewards, and that weighting is determined by whichever system we deem works the best. Total damage to give solo's a fair chance, including a damage cap per player, so there is a bigger benefit to running around and playing as opposed to trying to do damage to the same player over and over again.

Each Day there is a 45% chance a relic is handed out, if it is successful, then it's given to one person that day, who hit a minimum damage score, based on their weighting in the lottery (which is determined by total damage that day).

 

[Winstonian]

The worry about exploitation is one of the reasons I don't think giving rewards to the top 5 players by damage, or anything else works. I personally think it needs to be a weighted lottery, much like the Altar rewards, and that weighting is determined by whichever system we deem works the best. Total damage to give solo's a fair chance, including a damage cap per player, so there is a bigger benefit to running around and playing as opposed to trying to do damage to the same player over and over again.

Each Day there is a 45% chance a relic is handed out, if it is successful, then it's given to one person that day, who hit a minimum damage score, based on their weighting in the lottery (which is determined by total damage that day).

Love it.

 

[Winstonian]

That system, adding a few lower-tier rewards at random, plus expl potions splashing, and PvP would increase significantly here. I'd have no other PvP related complaints.

 

[AreYouKidden]

@Xiulan oh and the 45% chance wasn't really a random number.. Currently PvM you can do altars which give a 25% chance to reward a relic, based on a lottery system on who put gems in the altars. 3 bosses, about 6 hours between, depending on when boss dies, that's 9 - 25% chances to reward a relic, or 2.25 relics per day through the altar system.

If there is a concern about off-balancing the economy, simple lower the altar boss chance to 20% a day, and put those 9 - 5%'s into the PvP system, and you get the same relics a day, with 1.8 relics going to PvM, and .45 going to PvP daily... However I think adding in that .45 relics daily to PvP, and not changing PvM would be fine considering the number of complaints about lack of relics..

Addressing you directly because you didn't want to see PvP'rs getting a better chance than PvM'rs, and I agree entirely..

 

[Winstonian]

@Swayze @eppy Is the weighted lottery idea (the weight being based off of damage done), as @AreYouKidden has laid out, something we can have further discussion on? It seems apparent that it'll bring a lot more activity to structured PvP.

 

[K A Z]

@Xiulan oh and the 45% chance wasn't really a random number.. Currently PvM you can do altars which give a 25% chance to reward a relic, based on a lottery system on who put gems in the altars. 3 bosses, about 6 hours between, depending on when boss dies, that's 9 - 25% chances to reward a relic, or 2.25 relics per day through the altar system.

If there is a concern about off-balancing the economy, simple lower the altar boss chance to 20% a day, and put those 9 - 5%'s into the PvP system, and you get the same relics a day, with 1.8 relics going to PvM, and .45 going to PvP daily... However I think adding in that .45 relics daily to PvP, and not changing PvM would be fine considering the number of complaints about lack of relics..

Addressing you directly because you didn't want to see PvP'rs getting a better chance than PvM'rs, and I agree entirely..

as a PVMer who actually invests time in PVM I'd be fucking pissed if out of a sudden people like myself end up getting relics that otherwise had to be hard earned...

 

[Winstonian]

as a PVMer who actually invests time in PVM I'd be fucking pissed if out of a sudden people like myself end up getting relics that otherwise had to be hard earned...

I'm confused. You are a PvMer who invests time in PvM, but would be fucking pissed if someone like you, who invests time into PvM, received a relic? It sounds like those that invest time into this game should receive rewards accordingly.

A weighted lottery removes the exploit concern and still provides a significant incentive for more players, including casual, to participate.

 

[K A Z]

I'm confused. You are a PvMer who invests time in PvM, but would be fucking pissed if someone like you, who invests time into PvM, received a relic? It sounds like those that invest time into this game should receive rewards accordingly.

A weighted lottery removes the exploit concern and still provides a significant incentive for more players, including casual, to participate.

sorry, was still a bit sleepy. I ment that if I was a PVMer who spends hours on end farming then I'd be pissed if somebody like me (kaz), who only pvps, gets a relic for doing basically nothing.

 

[Winstonian]

sorry, was still a bit sleepy. I ment that if I was a PVMer who spends hours on end farming then I'd be pissed if somebody like me (kaz), who only pvps, gets a relic for doing basically nothing.

Good, then change it to gold.

It just so happens that the big rewards on UOF are PvM related (outside of gold), so they're the items that actually provide incentive. If you'd rather it be gold, then fine, but growing this shard is worth giving items out in a weighted lottery.

 

[K A Z]

Good, then change it to gold.

It just so happens that the big rewards on UOF are PvM related (outside of gold), so they're the items that actually provide incentive. If you'd rather it be gold, then fine, but growing this shard is worth giving items out in a weighted lottery.

gold? Isn't Gold the "ressource" we're constantly trying to take OUT of the game with gold sinks? Dunno man.. giving out worthwhile stuff (other than wearables and general aesthetic items as those are pretty harmless) for PVP does not seem to be a good idea to me at all. Why should people be rewarded for mere pvp? It's not that hard and its not a grind either..

 

[Winstonian]

gold? Isn't Gold the "ressource" we're constantly trying to take OUT of the game with gold sinks? Dunno man.. giving out worthwhile stuff (other than wearables and general aesthetic items as those are pretty harmless) for PVP does not seem to be a good idea to me at all. Why should people be rewarded for mere pvp? It's not that hard and its not a grind either..

Uh, the purpose of gold sinks isn't to remove gold from the game. That's nonsensical. It's to increase/maintain the value of gold by offering desired items to spend it on. Giving out gold (to a FEW players ONCE a week) would lead to players spending that gold on items that other players have, which is positive for the UOF economy.

And the entire point of this is that, right now, there's nothing that brings casual players to PvP. PvP shouldn't be reserved exclusively to the groups... it should be geared towards everyone. An idea like this, which provides a potential reward of significance to players in a lottery weighted by participation, would bring a LOT more players to PvP, including solo players and even PvMers. And, lastly, it would benefit the UOF economy. These are fantastic things for UOF.

 

[K A Z]

Uh, the purpose of gold sinks isn't to remove gold from the game. That's nonsensical. It's to increase/maintain the value of gold by offering desired items to spend it on.

that is not taking gold out of the game!? YOU make no sense, baby!

And the entire point of this is that, right now, there's nothing that brings casual players to PvP. PvP shouldn't be reserved exclusively to the groups... it should be geared towards everyone. An idea like this, which provides a potential reward of significance to players in a lottery weighted by participation, would bring a LOT more players to PvP, including solo players and even PvMers. And, lastly, it would benefit the UOF economy. These are fantastic things for UOF.

you should add that you think that it'll help. I do not think so. The people who dont pvp right now dont pvp because they hate dying in UO. That's why they spend most of their time playing hunting mobs! And ain't nothings gona change that. It's a problem with player mentality.

 

[Winstonian]

What? No. It's not to remove gold from the game. It's to get gold to circulate. Come on man... you aren't being serious, right?

That second part isn't true. They don't necessarily hate dying in UO, but they see no purpose or value in getting ganked by groups as solo/casual players. Huge difference, and rather obvious.