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A Proposal for the Return of Stealable Rares

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by SidX, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. SidX

    SidX Well-Known Member

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    Sid
    Hi folks.. I didn't want to make this too long but I assure you I believe it's worth a few minutes of your time.

    For TL;DR, scroll down to the bottom for my proposal.

    I'm returning to UO:F after a pretty long time away and primarily play a thief. When I played in the past my primary income (and main source of enjoyment playing this server) was from hunting stealable rares. I did do minimal player thieving but not too much. There was nothing that kept me playing this server as much as the thrill of hunting stealables and navigating the world looking for unfound rares.

    However, I see now that stealable rares have been entirely removed from the server with the exception of nostalgic OSI ones. While I do support decisions being made that benefit the majority of the server (i.e. 10% of the population will dislike the idea, while 90% of the population will support it), to me removing stealables has removed a significant amount of what kept me here.. and I'm sure I speak for some other thieves as well.

    After some extensive thinking, I really just can't wrap my mind around why stealables were removed. Who would "dislike" stealable rares enough to be happy that they were removed? If anything, doesn't this mean less player thieving while the thieves are busy rare hunting? I'm just failing to find the decisive reason that made this make sense to the UO:F team. IMO, this only limits the desire for thieves to play UO:F. Perhaps that was the goal, though, but I think many people often forget that thieves are a class of their own.

    Being a thief isn't all about just stealing from people and annoying them at the crafting area. There is a lot of skill involved for good thieves that goes beyond just winging it at the bank trying to steal a stack of mandrake root. It's a craft, and like all professions in this game I'm a firm believer that there needs to be some secondary incentive beyond strictly stealing from other players to keep thieves happy. Take BODs for crafters, for example. For me, stealables satisfied this 'secondary incentive' desire.

    I like to think of it this way.. crafters have BODs. However, BODs only immediately benefit crafters until they are either sold or turned in for rewards, thus generating extra income beyond simply crafting. There are BODs that are harder to get that produce a more lucrative return, and there are BODs that are easier to get that produce a less lucrative return.

    Well, for thieves, stealable rares were basically our "BOD", if you will. They were a secondary incentive to play the game that provided a way to produce income and enjoyment aside from strict player thieving. Like BODs, some stealable rares were less rare, and others extremely rare. They only immediately benefited thieves until they were either sold or traded producing a return, just like BODs. I know both are different in other ways, but to each class, BODs and stealables are that "extra mmmph" that keep things interesting when all else gets tiring. As a dedicated thief, removing stealable rares is essentially as much of a change to the thief class as removing BODs would be to crafters.

    I'm voting for a return of stealable rares, but not as they were implemented before. The main issues with stealables were (a) static spawn locations, (b) relatively static timers (i.e. monthly, weekly or daily with slight fluctuations in exact precise timing), and (c) the fact that ANYONE could steal them with no actual Stealing skill. I really think this is what frustrated people.

    Basically, if you were the first to find a rare spawn, it was yours forever until you shared the location.. all you had to do was check the spot daily until it respawned and you essentially had the spot locked down with a time. When JoeB released his first round of stealables, I remember some buddies and I locked down a good number of rares for MONTHS until spots were leaked. I understand the annoyance to others, but the problem was not us-- it was how they spawned.

    My Proposal:

    My proposal is to re-implement stealable rares, but with the following changes to make the system be more acceptable for everyone while adding more risk to the reward:

    1. Stealing any stealable rare will carry a chance to make you criminal. This goes for in-and-out of town, making you vulnerable to guards and other players. Criminal chance can be correlated to Stealing skill as follows:

    0.0-10.0 Skill: 90% chance of being flagged criminal
    11.0-20.0 Skill: 80% chance of being flagged criminal
    20.1-30.0 Skill: 70% chance of being flagged criminal
    30.1-40.0 Skill: 60% chance of being flagged criminal
    40.1-50.0 Skill: 50% chance of being flagged criminal
    50.1-60.0 Skill: 40% chance of being flagged criminal
    60.1-70.0 Skill: 30% chance of being flagged criminal
    70.1-80.0 Skill: 20% chance of being flagged criminal
    80.1-90.0 Skill: 10% chance of being flagged criminal
    90.1-99.9 Skill: 8% chance of being flagged criminal
    100 Skill: 5% chance of being flagged criminal​

    As you can see, risk is reduced with the more points you dedicate to Stealing but no player is ever safe.​


    2. Some stealable rares will have a chance of breaking. The more delicate the item (i.e. ruined paintings, etc.), the higher the chance of the item breaking. This means that any rare has the potential to break when stolen, eliminating the 100% guarantee of obtaining the item once it spawns.​

    3. Vary the spawn locations. Having dedicated locations where particular items spawn makes stealables very monotonous and creates frustration with hunting them. Rather, have stealables spawn in more than one location. If one item spawns in two locations, for example, only one could spawn at a time adding some randomness to it.​

    4. Vary the timers. Strict "daily", "weekly" and "monthly" timers do nothing but cause people to camp spots and grab an item the second it spawns. Wider windows are needed. Sure, have daily rares, but have a two-step timer method like this:​

    a) A "checkers" item spawns and is a daily stealable rare
    b) A player steals the item and awaits the respawn
    c) 20 hours later, the "checkers" is eligible to respawn again but will now spawn randomly within the next 8-10 hours

    I guess this idea is somewhat similar to IDOCs. The set timers until the end-stage are the same, but once the end-stage is hit (i.e. a house goes IDOC or a spawn timer is ready to spawn), the actual time from that point forward is randomized.​

    In Shane's post announcing the removal of stealable rares, the main reason I saw was just that it is a system that benefits "FEW", and not all. But isn't that what makes UO great? Not everything can or should benefit everyone. This is a game of choosing paths. What about BODs? They don't really benefit everyone, just crafters. On that note, what about meta pets? Don't they only benefit tamers? What good are they to anyone else? I guess my point is that we shouldn't be eliminating systems that add plenty of enjoyment to the game and, most importantly, keep players online, just because they aren't useful to some. If you've never played a thief or hunted stealable rares, it's hard to understand my point here. But trust me, with them fully removed, much of the draw has been drained for me to return, and probably others as well.

    I would like to start a discussion on actual ways we can re-implement them to make it more "fair" for everyone. To those of you who disliked stealables, why? What didn't you like about them? How did having them implemented detriment your gameplay on UO:F? And thieves, please chime in. What are your thoughts?

    Thanks for your attention and I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
     
    Ms BabyDoll, Morgy, hubcap and 7 others like this.
  2. Ranker

    Ranker Well-Known Member

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    Dareth
    I'd be all for it. More options of things to do is never bad. And I agree if getting rid of something that few ever get then 99% of this game should go lol.
     
    SidX likes this.
  3. SidX

    SidX Well-Known Member

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    100% agree. Almost every aspect of this game only benefits a select few! That's what UO is all about.. BODs are only useable by-- and benefit-- crafters. Meta pets only benefit tamers. By removing stealable rares, with that logic, why not remove meta pets? Please explain to me how meta pets benefit more than "a few".

    My point is that by removing stealables (and let's be honest, the nostalgic OSI ones don't compare), you are removing a large draw to the server for any incoming player who wants to play a thief and live/feel the thief class.
     
    Ranker likes this.
  4. Ranker

    Ranker Well-Known Member

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    Dareth

    Yeah it really hurts no one and adds a playstyle as well. here is to hoping, Fingers crossed!
     
  5. tankian

    tankian Well-Known Member

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    They were removed because of bugs and exploits I believe, people wouldn't update their clients and a lot of the stealable rares would show up as unused tiles making them easy to find. Plus people would camp them as ghost and possibly have res-steal-recall scripts
     
    Darkarna likes this.
  6. SidX

    SidX Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, never knew that, so I guess that's a valid reason to change them.. I wish the graphic for the unused tile could be changed to something like a black pearl so that nobody would see it, lol.

    I would even vote for having stealables that weren't new art files so there would be no chance of showing up as an Unused tile.. if that's possible.. not sure if more goes into it than that developmentally.
     
    Darkarna likes this.
  7. tankian

    tankian Well-Known Member

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    or have a forced patch that needs downloaded to be able to login and play
     
    hubcap and SidX like this.
  8. eppy

    eppy Administrator

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    We didnt remove the objects. We just added them as rare mob drops.

    The entire problem with stealable rares was that there were certain groups that had all the timers and just macroed collecting them.

    If they are on that much of a lockdown then we are just basically handing those players gold for running a macro.
     
    hubcap likes this.
  9. SidX

    SidX Well-Known Member

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    As a thief, my disappointment isn't from removal of the objects. It's about the removal of the entire stealable experience.. exploring, navigating, taking ships across the sea to islands and far-away places that nobody ever ventures to just hoping to come across something new. To explore cities, buildings, towns, etc. that get people out into the world-- not JUST dungeons-- is what the draw was for me.

    Many people don't understand the experience involved with hunting stealable rares, and they only see it as a system that "only benefited a few select people". It was just FUN, plain and simple, to run around the world looking for unfound rares. To make the stealables mob drops instead isn't a solution. Revamping spawn timers and spawn systems would have been a solution, since that was really the problem. The only reason any of the rares got locked down by specific players was the fact that the timers were too easy to lock down.

    Look at this screenshot from a spreadsheet of mine with spawn times from JoeB's rares:

    [​IMG]

    Look at how predictable the Cove barrel was. THAT is the problem. Spawning almost at exactly the same time every day, until once in a while the timer shifted 12 hours and would then spawn for days at that same time again. It was TOO EASY to lock down timers.

    IMO changing the timers was the only solution needed. Or, randomizing locations. But focusing the entire effort into dungeons is only going to drive thieves away. That shifts the attraction to UO:F away from thieves.

    I applaud @JoeB for making this the best part of UO:F but honestly, as a thief, too much fun has been removed to make it easy to come back :(
     
    hubcap, Tomtom and Darkarna like this.
  10. SidX

    SidX Well-Known Member

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    Sid
    Sorry for the double post-- can't edit mine? But P.S. In the beginning of my last post I didn't mean "removal of the objects", as they obviously weren't removed. I just meant I am not disappointed at adding rares as mob drops, but I am disappointed in the experience that has been changed**.
     
  11. Nasak

    Nasak Well-Known Member

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    hey im coming back either way but I vote for some stealables -- Idk who was able to macro / cheat the system but me n my crew got a lot of them and i know most of us at least that i knew werent macroing on multiple accounts -- we got them by camping staying up late hours and biting our fingernails

    fun as shit and worth the wait
     
    Godsrage and SidX like this.
  12. Cash is King

    Cash is King Well-Known Member

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    I agree and want stealable rares back. However your points 1 and 2 seem like a lot of work. Points 3 and 4 seem reasonable enough to implement - have X number of locations for stealable rares with a randomizer on when they spawn and where they spawn.

    The old system being every X hours or days to get a stealable rare was flawed for obvious reasons. randomizing the timer and location of any/all stealable rares will help solve this.

    Since the system changed I have not got one of the old stealable rares or heard of a friend getting them, or even seen any come to the selling forum. With mobs having loot for statues and now idoc loot, bring stealable rares back to the game!
     
    Nasak, Godsrage and SidX like this.
  13. SidX

    SidX Well-Known Member

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    I agree, 1 and 2 may be a lot of work.. but since the stealable system was removed it's been a pretty bland experience for me on UOF. Unfortunately I don't have a tamer or a character in a militia, which on this server-- if you don't-- things can get incredibly boring sometimes. Stealables were my main draw.. I'm a solo player, don't need or want a large guild, and just wanna do my own thing and have fun. They need to come back in some capacity!

    I, like @Cash is King, have not heard of one single individual person getting ANY of these as a mob drop since the day the stealable system was taken out. Can anyone confirm any of them have actually dropped? Nor have I seen any for sale whatsoever, and nobody's asked for any PCs on the items in D!scord. Makes me wonder what's up with them.

    Nobody is buying these old stealables since the rarity is so unknown. Do they really still spawn? Don't they? :(
     
    hubcap, Godsrage and Cash is King like this.
  14. Bromista

    Bromista Well-Known Member

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    Mob dropped rares are too stingy, has anyone seen the market lately my goodness it's a wasteland...at least people who had rares on lock sold shit
     
    hubcap, Sephid, Cash is King and 2 others like this.
  15. Tomtom

    Tomtom Member

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    I was just roaming a few dungeons after I finally got my Thief character ready, hoping to find anything stealable. Instead a found this thread :p The system has not been reimplemented yet, has it?
    If not, I as a new player, would like to add my vote, as I was actually looking forward to hunting some stealables. What am I gonna do with that GM Stealing now..? *cough*
     
    hubcap likes this.
  16. Phrygian

    Phrygian Well-Known Member

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    It actually quite bothered me, when I started playing here 7 or so months ago, to find out that this was removed. It's still in the Features and the initial info given to players about the server, and was something that I was looking forward to. It's still advertised as one of the "points" of the server, even though it was long ago removed.

    "Some static decorations are stealable."
     
  17. Order Sixty Six_

    Order Sixty Six_ Well-Known Member

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    Stealable rares were removed...so I've been checking my spots for nothing? Well that gives me more time tine to harass the crafting area
     
    Bromista likes this.
  18. Bromista

    Bromista Well-Known Member

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    I miss CG griefers
     
  19. hubcap

    hubcap Well-Known Member

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    My only beef with stealable rares was/were that they spawned at known times and known locations.

    If it were (truly) random, it would be a welcome addition to the game.
    I was always interested in making a dungeon dwelling thief but I got to the game late and most of them, if not all of them, had dedicated people that knew when and where they appeared.

    Thats kinda lame.

    True randomness.
     
  20. hubcap

    hubcap Well-Known Member

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    I like your proposals.
    (true randomness, needing stealing skills, not always 100% effective, breakable, etc.)
    All good ideas to ponder.
    And, yes, I agree that meta pets and taming is lame, too. :)
     

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