Adding Another Legitimate PvM Class (Parrying)

[Malkraven]

lots of HPs and hard hitting isnt what he is talking about he wants some better AI may be some scripted reactions to certain actions.

intelligent Mobs.....

 

[K A Z]

Exactly! I mean what would those changes help? OH nice, with the new Slayer armour we would have Warrior Tamers standing in the middle of Destard, tanking Elder Dragons with their dragon slayer shields while their own dragons eat everything around them. Challenging? No.

 

[Winstonian]

What do you think is challenging ? Afterall it's just the same old tanking with a Tamer and controlling the spawn with a Bard. In order for new skills to have legitamicity in PVM there would need to be Dungeons that have Pet killers in there, monsters that only take damage from melee Characters.. Stuff like that. Right now those chars would not be used. Why? Because they'd still be U S E L E S S. There is no place for them. Create a place for such templates and then change the skills.

That's the point: tamers are mandatory, while melee classes have little value compared to provokers/tamers. There should be another viable option for PvM.

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[K A Z]

That's the point: tamers are mandatory, while melee classes have little value compared to provokers/tamers. There should be another viable option for PvM.

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The sad truth to this is that Tamers and Bards would take advantage out of these changes to make PVM even less challenging as it currently is for them. There is no good PVM in this era of UO.

 

[Winstonian]

Exactly! I mean what would those changes help? OH nice, with the new Slayer armour we would have Warrior Tamers standing in the middle of Destard, tanking Elder Dragons with their dragon slayer shields while their own dragons eat everything around them. Challenging? No.

A warrior tamer? You want to increase the skill cap? Macing, tactics, anatomy, healing, parrying, resist, taming, lore...?

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[Winstonian]

The sad truth to this is that Tamers and Bards would take advantage out of these changes to make PVM even less challenging as it currently is for them. There is no good PVM in this era of UO.

Tamers and bards would take advantage of mace fighting and parrying being viable for PvM? ... how?

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[K A Z]

Taming, lore, vet, parrying, magery, healing, anatomy ? taming, lore, parrying, healing, anat, music, provo with a second char that has vet ? Taming, lore,macing, healing, anat, tact, mace ?

 

[Winstonian]

Taming, lore, vet, parrying, magery, healing, anatomy ? taming, lore, parrying, healing, anat, music, provo with a second char that has vet ? Taming, lore,macing, healing, anat, tact, mace ?

What the hell is that first build? You're going to have parrying without a weapon skill? You better not be getting hit with that build, so parrying is pointless.

Parrying in your second build is equally as pointless.

Your last build is the one I posted without resist. You're going to tank an elder dragon without resist? Riiiight.

Those don't work man. You wouldn't be able to make a relevant melee tamer that abuses these mechanics.

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[K A Z]

What the hell is that first build? You're going to have parrying without a weapon skill? You better not be getting hit with that build, so parrying is pointless.

Parrying in your second build is equally as pointless.

Your last build is the one I posted without resist. You're going to tank an elder dragon without resist? Riiiight.

Those don't work man. You wouldn't be able to make a relevant melee tamer that abuses these mechanics.

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Where exactly does the first Template not work ? Parrying doesn't check your melee skill but simply if you're yielding a Shield or not. All those Templates would ofc only be viable with Slayer Armour. It's not my fault that you didn't think your suggestions through.

 

[Jager]

i remember before i quit osi, when parry was a pretty decent skill, alot of mages were actually GMing parry and carrying shields, specialiy in chaos/order.

 

[Winstonian]

Where exactly does the first Template not work ? Parrying doesn't check your melee skill but simply if you're yielding a Shield or not. All those Templates would ofc only be viable with Slayer Armour. It's not my fault that you didn't think your suggestions through.

What? Without a weapon skill, the monsters chance to hit would be extremely high. Not only do you not have a weapon skill, but you'd have no resist. Both melee and magic attacks would shred you.

My suggestions are still extremely valid, and your examples here have strengthened them: you can't make a viable build that exploits these changes.

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[halygon]

Your problem with KAZs first temp was the lack or resist or parry? I would say lack of meditation would be the problem if anything. Most tamer Provos right now don't use resist as they expect to not be casted on at all, nor hit with melee attacks.

Parry does two things only, maybe you're assuming it does more?
1) raises your total AR and*
2) give a chance to parry a melee attack*


* Assumes a shield is equipped

 

[Winstonian]

Your problem with KAZs first temp was the lack or resist or parry? I would say lack of meditation would be the problem if anything. Most tamer Provos right now don't use resist as they expect to not be casted on at all, nor hit with melee attacks.

Parry does two things only, maybe you're assuming it does more?
1) raises your total AR and*
2) give a chance to parry a melee attack*


* Assumes a shield is equipped

His first build didn't have provocation. It was taming, lore, vet with magery, healing, anat and parry, without a weapon skill and resist. Parrying would be pointless.

This thread is proposing that parrying and resist together also allow one to block magic attacks from monsters, making it strong for PvM.

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[halygon]

His first build didn't have provocation. It was taming, lore, vet with magery, healing, anat and parry, without a weapon skill and resist. Parrying would be pointless.

This thread is proposing that parrying and resist together also allow one to block magic attacks from monsters, making it strong for PvM.

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fair enough with the topic of the thread. I was just stating what it does currently.

KAZs temp still works, just would not be my choice of temp, but it would still work.

 

[Winstonian]

fair enough with the topic of the thread. I was just stating what it does currently.

KAZs temp still works, just would not be my choice of temp, but it would still work.

He posted three temps. Parry was pointless on the first two, as he was either healing dragons or provoking, and his third build was a "elder dragon tank" without resist. That wouldn't be viable.

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[K A Z]

He posted three temps. Parry was pointless on the first two, as he was either healing dragons or provoking, and his third build was a "elder dragon tank" without resist. That wouldn't be viable.

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you realize that parrying works without a weapon skill, yes?

 

[Winstonian]

you realize that parrying works without a weapon skill, yes?

Of course. What the hell is the point in having parrying in a taming build over meditation? It's a wasted skill. Or parrying in a provoking build when you also have dragons?

You're talking about how unreasonable these changes would make PvM when you didn't take resist in either build, which is what this suggestion required to help it block magic attacks. Parrying wouldn't help either of your first two builds... it would be a wasted skill.

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[K A Z]

Of course. What the hell is the point in having parrying in a taming build over meditation? It's a wasted skill. Or parrying in a provoking build when you also have dragons?

You're talking about how unreasonable these changes would make PvM when you didn't take resist in either build, which is what this suggestion required to help it block magic attacks. Parrying wouldn't help either of your first two builds... it would be a wasted skill.

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Oh. I made up those Templates in 30 seconds. Lets switch Magery in the first one with Resisting Spells. Good now?

 

[Winstonian]

Oh. I made up those Templates in 30 seconds. Lets switch Magery in the first one with Resisting Spells. Good now?

Hell no.

Taming, lore, vet, resist, parry, healing, anat.

What does that build... do? You have vet: are the dragons tanking? If so, why have parry and resist when you could have mage and med? If the dragons aren't tanking, why have vet? And the opposing dragon's chance to hit would be insanely high without a weapon skill. You would get destroyed.

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[Winstonian]

If you dropped vet from that build, and added mace fighting (and the skill suggestions in the OP were made), you could make a viable build consistent with this topic.

Taming, lore, macing, parrying, resist, anatomy, healing.

You'd both tank and lower the defense of the elder dragon, allowing your pets to do increased damage (to compensate for your lack of damage, as you have no tactics). Your parrying and resist would help you survive their magic damage. The downside would be that the dragon may divert his attention to your dragons.

That build would be quality, and far from overpowered.

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