Inflames
Master
needs fixed just one of many broken things here.
Fix Spell Reflect and Going grey/criminal
- Thread starter Nubby
- Start date
eric_azria
Grandmaster
Wreckognize is a fine example of the type of idiots infesting this server.
NO ONE IS DEBATING WHETHER ITS USEFUL FOR BLUES, REDS OR GREYS.
We're stating that if player (a) has magic reflect cast (whether it's with inscription or not) and player ( b) casts a lightning on him , player (b) will not be flagged to player (a) because he still has magic reflect up (4 circles with no scribe, 11 circles with scribe if a lightning is casted) All circles would need to be depleted before player (b) can be attacked by player (a) despite the fact that player (b) has already casted spells on player (a)
If you still don't understand after that, god help your soul.
NO ONE IS DEBATING WHETHER ITS USEFUL FOR BLUES, REDS OR GREYS.
We're stating that if player (a) has magic reflect cast (whether it's with inscription or not) and player ( b) casts a lightning on him , player (b) will not be flagged to player (a) because he still has magic reflect up (4 circles with no scribe, 11 circles with scribe if a lightning is casted) All circles would need to be depleted before player (b) can be attacked by player (a) despite the fact that player (b) has already casted spells on player (a)
If you still don't understand after that, god help your soul.
Bromista
Grandmaster
You've got a loooong ways to go to catch me
And yeah I will give you that you can't reflect two whole combos, that was definitely incorrect.
But specific circumstances aside this kind of thing happens all the time. Just because 90% of the players here PvE doesn't mean then 10% that constantly fight each other and force PvP on non-consenting PvE'rs don't count for anything.
And regrding going red, that's not really a great argument. That's one solution for a consenting PvPer but for example my provo tamer takes very few counts and always will... but still has to live with people dumping on him without flagging. He doesn't have scribe so it really only applies to a one spell attack but still it does happen. I'm not gonna flag if I don't have to (I shouldn't have to) and especially if there are other players around.
Furthermore I remember someone throwing factions into the equation. Flagging mechanics are already different for factioners than reds/blues/grays so the only thing hanging reflect flagging would do is disallow an orange get a recall off (provided their attacker didn't manually attack them to keep them from being able to do so, which any good PvPer would be doing right now anyway since scribe is an integral part of consenting group PvP).
I still want to see change.
halygon
Grandmaster
You and your damn logic. Of course a factioners would attack the other player instead of expecting to flag upon spell hit. That's just an argument I made up on the fly to show how shallow the other argument was.
I mean really, all I am hearing from you guys is that it's annoying that someone can knock down your reflect without you being able to retaliate. It's annoying to me for poisoners to poison with nearly every hit and have like a billion charges per poison attempt. That doesn't mean it should be changed (although it really should
).There's a ton a annoying things.. Like Azria.. He's annoying but you don't see me asking for him to be squelched.
My point is the same, this change should not happen.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
you dont need to take off all circles of reflect to bypass it, you need to cast an agressive spell 1 circle higher than the amount of remaining circles to land it.
this is bad information on so many levels
do you even play this server? really?
you don't need to take off all circles before you can attack, you can simply attack without spells if you like.
im sure you're just trolling now lol maybe you should try testing these things sometime man
wreckognize
Grandmaster
You've got a loooong ways to go to catch me
maybe nubby can help me get there
see u at the top G ^^
Nubby
Apprentice
These 2 are great.
One wants to argue specific details that aren't germane to the main issue at hand. Does it matter you can post a 2nd level spell when I have 1 circle of reflect? Not what we are discussing.
Was I wrong about 2 exp/ebolts? Yes, I was wrong about reflecting 2 exp ebolts. I believe now it must have been just the explosions from them and not ebolts (12 circles) landing. Same result, 2 people attacking, half health and I couldn't engage. They simply meditated and waited to redump.
The other "stands by his own conclusion" even though he made 0 points to why the bug should stand outside of faction mage vs mage, where one wants to recall. If you can't get more niche then mage vs mage faction fighting where ones wants to recall, I don't know what to tell you - being grey is not rare, so this issue is more prevalent then you realize.
Do you think maybe you two are the ones looking at this incorrectly? Everyone else in this thread agrees, and you two clowns are attempting to derail/debase the argument but everyone sees through your bullshit. You two are proof post count is meaningless and your inability to see bigger issues/ points of view is scary.
One wants to argue specific details that aren't germane to the main issue at hand. Does it matter you can post a 2nd level spell when I have 1 circle of reflect? Not what we are discussing.
Was I wrong about 2 exp/ebolts? Yes, I was wrong about reflecting 2 exp ebolts. I believe now it must have been just the explosions from them and not ebolts (12 circles) landing. Same result, 2 people attacking, half health and I couldn't engage. They simply meditated and waited to redump.
The other "stands by his own conclusion" even though he made 0 points to why the bug should stand outside of faction mage vs mage, where one wants to recall. If you can't get more niche then mage vs mage faction fighting where ones wants to recall, I don't know what to tell you - being grey is not rare, so this issue is more prevalent then you realize.
Do you think maybe you two are the ones looking at this incorrectly? Everyone else in this thread agrees, and you two clowns are attempting to derail/debase the argument but everyone sees through your bullshit. You two are proof post count is meaningless and your inability to see bigger issues/ points of view is scary.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
Because you were probably running, you didnt catch or notice the ebolts. Those reflect circles helped you maintain full hp and not lose stamina. Seems like it's working brilliantly.
all degenerate namecalling aside
eric_azria
Grandmaster
Oh jesus.
Okay let's try to make this as easy for you to understand.
My character azria (Gm inscription) is sitting at the bank with 15 circles of spell reflection
Let's just say I'm grey or red.
Some scrub named wreckognize comes up and thinks oh hey (this would never happen) I think I'll attack azria.
Wreckognize casts 1 explosion (6 circles), and 1 energy bolt (6 circles) Neither of these spells that you casted have made you an agressor towards me. Instead they reflected back at you, but now I have only 3 circles of spell reflection left.
So what SHOULD have happened was: As soon as you targeted me with the explosion everything that normally happens (removing circles of my spell reflect, reflecting the spell back at you, making you heal yourself) and it should also make you grey to me.
Period. No more. That's it. End of discussion.
Nubby
Apprentice
No, I actually went charging in to take advantage of their mistake (dumping on me when I had reflect up) but had to quickly run once I realized they were not attackable.
I later would take a murder count because I was tired of having to wait to lose the reflect to attack the person that engaged me first.
I later would take a murder count because I was tired of having to wait to lose the reflect to attack the person that engaged me first.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
could already tell based on the novel
eric_azria
Grandmaster
As long as you understand, that's all that matters.
There's a reason you don't pvp, and I'm quickly understanding why.
You have no clue what you're doing, or talking about.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
i pvp all the time lol even on the forums
im a bigtime pk man ive stood over corpses with 1v5+ blood on my hands because I use skill points to their maximum potential.
off topic from inscription, but for example, I enjoy playing a fencer, but on this shard, spear para is not worth it and so I use an archer instead. It's called adapting.
im a bigtime pk man ive stood over corpses with 1v5+ blood on my hands because I use skill points to their maximum potential.
off topic from inscription, but for example, I enjoy playing a fencer, but on this shard, spear para is not worth it and so I use an archer instead. It's called adapting.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
Well, it just doesn't seem like you understand the mechanics well enough to really be able to validate your opinion. You didn't even understand what the mechanics themselves were before now, what are the chances that you already can see how they fit into the grand balance that is UOF pvp?
By the way guys, anyone can call names but it doesn't make you sound any smarter piled in with all this misinformation...
Nubby
Apprentice
rofl at saying it's an opinion.
Cast reflect on your blue character and let me know when up. I'll harm you and we can sit and hold hands together since we'll both be blue.
You are sooo baked right now. Can imagine you slumped over, high as hell with a hot pocket trolling the suggestion threads. Get your life together.
Cast reflect on your blue character and let me know when up. I'll harm you and we can sit and hold hands together since we'll both be blue.
You are sooo baked right now. Can imagine you slumped over, high as hell with a hot pocket trolling the suggestion threads. Get your life together.
Bromista
Grandmaster
LolYou and your damn logic. Of course a factioners would attack the other player instead of expecting to flag upon spell hit. That's just an argument I made up on the fly to show how shallow the other argument was.
I mean really, all I am hearing from you guys is that it's annoying that someone can knock down your reflect without you being able to retaliate. It's annoying to me for poisoners to poison with nearly every hit and have like a billion charges per poison attempt. That doesn't mean it should be changed (although it really should
There's a ton a annoying things.. Like Azria.. He's annoying but you don't see me asking for him to be squelched.
My point is the same, this change should not happen.
I agree, poisoning could use a slight debuff. Alchy too, but again slight. As far as alchy goes I'd like a buff across the board to compliment a debuff on explo pots but we're straying from the topic. I know you mean well but we could go on all day about little tweaks we'd like to see regarding, well, everything.
Stillll siding with azria on this one. We've never seen eye to eye since he blasted me for suggesting possible hax coming from a guy who spent a ver brief amount of time here, possibly banned? Who knows. But we're in agreeance on this one.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
lol typical
taking yet another debate to extremes
dropping hot pocket bombs and sad songs but your opinion is still wrong so begone
wreckognize
Grandmaster
maybe you shouldn't be trying to fish for pvp on a scribe then
adapt
i should point out that they added a mechanic where if you dispel feild yourself, you take off those 3 circles, restarting the timer to put reflect back on. And it doesn't even cost mana.
So what if the smartest thing @eric_azria can do with 15 circles of reflect is to waste them being a newbie, pathetic. You picked a weird time to agree with this guy, @Bromista ^^
Kind of silly trying to pvp in town on your red in the first place IMHO
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Ok simple argument for everyone. A thief attempts to steal and fails they should stay blue until they succeed in doing something negative to you. I think not. Biggest problem no. Worth a look as it may be a quick simple fix sure. In an infinite resource situation should this be fixed YES.
This makes the only question what would it take to fix not should it be fixed and for that a gm would be the authority.
You do a negative act you should be grey no matter the result.
This makes the only question what would it take to fix not should it be fixed and for that a gm would be the authority.
You do a negative act you should be grey no matter the result.
Bromista
Grandmaster
Butttt to be fair @wreckognize you're kind of all over the place in this discussion. I like you so I'm not gonna ream you but you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot.
Your mincing of words has turned azrias statement into a strawman argument. Azria probably plays scribes what, 90+% of the time so I know he knows how the circles mechanism works better than just about anyone here.
Not to mention you've ping-ponged from every different possible criminal status/intention of both attacker and defender.
There's really only one situation worth discussing in this argument in my opinion, and that's blue on blue pk'ing. Sure flagging effects reds and oranges too but the most glaring problem with these busted mechanics is when a blue player fails to commit a criminal act because his intent backfired on him. The attacker doesn't ever deserve a get out of jail free card.
I really didn't like azrias fishing for PvP on a red in town argument either because I feel like that also misses the point. Sure in that case the red wouldn't get free reign to fight back against his attacker (which he should) but that situation only effects a small number of people a very small percentage of the time. Blue on blue flagging (or lack thereof) has the potential to effect almost all players almost all of the time.
Flames aside, as juicy as they are, the majority seems to agree shit is whack and I feel like there's no harm in tweaking the test server to see if we can get things working the way nature intended.
Your mincing of words has turned azrias statement into a strawman argument. Azria probably plays scribes what, 90+% of the time so I know he knows how the circles mechanism works better than just about anyone here.
Not to mention you've ping-ponged from every different possible criminal status/intention of both attacker and defender.
There's really only one situation worth discussing in this argument in my opinion, and that's blue on blue pk'ing. Sure flagging effects reds and oranges too but the most glaring problem with these busted mechanics is when a blue player fails to commit a criminal act because his intent backfired on him. The attacker doesn't ever deserve a get out of jail free card.
I really didn't like azrias fishing for PvP on a red in town argument either because I feel like that also misses the point. Sure in that case the red wouldn't get free reign to fight back against his attacker (which he should) but that situation only effects a small number of people a very small percentage of the time. Blue on blue flagging (or lack thereof) has the potential to effect almost all players almost all of the time.
Flames aside, as juicy as they are, the majority seems to agree shit is whack and I feel like there's no harm in tweaking the test server to see if we can get things working the way nature intended.