kolbycrouch
Master
I can armor a blessed helm piece and then layer it to earrings. I'm assuming you can do this for brace/ring and middle torso?
with +2 armor head patches if it works like this, that's 14 AR.
Incentives for PVP
- Thread starter GluttonySDS
- Start date
- Status
with +2 armor head patches if it works like this, that's 14 AR.
Zog'orium
Grandmaster
Why does every incentive for pvp need to be focused on factions? More bonuses or advantages for faction pvpers that continues to widen the gap between good pvpers and the rest of the shard. The majority of players do not participate in factions nor will ever join them. On OSI/EA factions always seemed to be dead and yet there were lots of pvp. Pvp there seemed to be focused around hotbeds of action like champ spawns or for the more hard core player- common areas of fighting like Yew gate. UOF has our own version of Yew gate with the Brit no cut zone.
We just need to find the incentive for people to fight back more or defend things like idocs, Rda's and spawns more vigorously. Could adding the virtue of Justice so players can protect and get the chance to get an additional scroll or two make a difference? Would be great to have a system that rewards a guild's pvp players for actually defending the spawn from raiders.
We just need to find the incentive for people to fight back more or defend things like idocs, Rda's and spawns more vigorously. Could adding the virtue of Justice so players can protect and get the chance to get an additional scroll or two make a difference? Would be great to have a system that rewards a guild's pvp players for actually defending the spawn from raiders.
GluttonySDS
Grandmaster
The whole idea is to incentivize consensual PVP so that factions(or militias or w/e) are not empty... if you got a way to make gold or pixels of some sort through trying out and participating in factions(win or lose), wouldnt you?
IDOCs, RDAs, and champ spawns already have tons of incentive for PVP but they all involve killing blues(PVErs) which is something that while part of the game, isnt as healthy as a system like factions or militias.
StegcO
Grandmaster
First we need to see Militia, no sense to suggest feature for a dead feature (faction)
BTW now a mage can equip 50 each reag + pots and fight, trust me glutt, if all exceptional weapon will have automatically +damage/accuracy like runic weapons BUT without farming silver to bless it you will se a lot of dexxer in the field and probably some new player that start pvp probably will start with a malee than mage
BTW now a mage can equip 50 each reag + pots and fight, trust me glutt, if all exceptional weapon will have automatically +damage/accuracy like runic weapons BUT without farming silver to bless it you will se a lot of dexxer in the field and probably some new player that start pvp probably will start with a malee than mage
drasked
Grandmaster
But power weapons and bronze runics are dirt cheap right?
StegcO
Grandmaster
Yes, but you need to farm/buy power weapons and/or buy runic weapons, if a malee can restock easly like a mage I THINK (maybe im wrong) we will se more malee in the field and, alway IN MY OWN OPINION, more newbs start to play pvp
drasked
Grandmaster
You also need to buy regs, pots and barbed set as a mage.
I understand that stocking a mage is slightly more simple than stocking a dexer, but playing a dexer is slightly more simple than a mage, so i think it balances out.
Tard the Paladin
Grandmaster
There are many ideas I could bring to the table on this issue but I won't waste my time. We've heard the devs discuss such mechanics over the years and it suggests they're incapable of broadening their narrow and outdated view of pvp. So instead of making suggestions I will point out the laughable and illogical reasoning behind what staff has already implemented and/or said.
1) Sigil bonuses don't mean anything because one guild controls them:
The same could be said about RDA's but they remain untouched. Need proof? Look at the RDA scoreboard and see which guild is still scripting their success. Considering the sigil bonuses were so weak you would think that RDA's would have been fixed long before sigil bonuses considering RDA rewards are exponentially greater than sigils.
Also, sigil bonuses remained in one guild because of a few devoted factioners like Lord Rocky that go the extra mile to keep the bonus.
2) PvP shouldn't be incentivized because it could be abused:
Punkte score type system prevents farming alt chars in other factions. Other similar strategies could prevent abuse.
3) PvP shouldn't be incentivized because only one guild does pvp:
Well maybe incentivizing it would encourage others to participate. Hard to say when its never even given a chance. Give it a test run.
4) Its not fair to incentivize pvp because a lot of people don't want to pvp:
These non-pvp'ers would still greatly benefit because they would rarely see a red in a dungeon. Players that might otherwise be pk'ing them would be focusing their efforts into incentivized pvp.
1) Sigil bonuses don't mean anything because one guild controls them:
The same could be said about RDA's but they remain untouched. Need proof? Look at the RDA scoreboard and see which guild is still scripting their success. Considering the sigil bonuses were so weak you would think that RDA's would have been fixed long before sigil bonuses considering RDA rewards are exponentially greater than sigils.
Also, sigil bonuses remained in one guild because of a few devoted factioners like Lord Rocky that go the extra mile to keep the bonus.
2) PvP shouldn't be incentivized because it could be abused:
Punkte score type system prevents farming alt chars in other factions. Other similar strategies could prevent abuse.
3) PvP shouldn't be incentivized because only one guild does pvp:
Well maybe incentivizing it would encourage others to participate. Hard to say when its never even given a chance. Give it a test run.
4) Its not fair to incentivize pvp because a lot of people don't want to pvp:
These non-pvp'ers would still greatly benefit because they would rarely see a red in a dungeon. Players that might otherwise be pk'ing them would be focusing their efforts into incentivized pvp.
StegcO
Grandmaster
You are perfectly right, now it's balanced.
My suggest is to unbalance the situation (making malee as easy as mage to restock) to invite more people in pvp.
but first of all we need to check militia
GluttonySDS
Grandmaster
Do you really think dexxer gear is why people arent PVPing? No... the reasons people dont PVP:
1. They dont like dying or losing
2. The skill gap is high for new players(see #1)
3. They dont feel like putting their egos aside and working as a team (see #1)
4. They dont feel like training new players to bolster their group size (see #1)
5. They dont feel like learning all the new macros/hotkeys that are required for PVP
So with those 5 things in mind... if theres no reward for PVP, why would anyone want to waste their time PVPing except for already dedicated/hardcore PVPers.
If you put in rewards that reward participation as well as winning, then those reasons become a lot less powerful as a barrier to entry.
1. They dont like dying or losing
2. The skill gap is high for new players(see #1)
3. They dont feel like putting their egos aside and working as a team (see #1)
4. They dont feel like training new players to bolster their group size (see #1)
5. They dont feel like learning all the new macros/hotkeys that are required for PVP
So with those 5 things in mind... if theres no reward for PVP, why would anyone want to waste their time PVPing except for already dedicated/hardcore PVPers.
If you put in rewards that reward participation as well as winning, then those reasons become a lot less powerful as a barrier to entry.
Sure I get that. You have to give alot of extra's to people who actually take the risk to PvP. The amount of money spent on supplies alone for any guild is staggering.
I think PvP should be end game. There is nothing harder than developing a PvP guild. The time, effort, and resources to establish even a small crew is astounding.
Bromista
Grandmaster
This is not a PvP centric server. I'm gonna type a lotta words here, buckle up buttercup.
Fact: players choose to PvP even when pixels aren't on the line but that clearly is not as popular as setting out with goal to obtain pixels which *may or may not* involve PvP.
Fact: incentives to PvP aren't inherently a bad idea, but the means of obtaining them sweet pixels combined with the current PvP mechanics is clearly far from ideal.
How do you make changes that satisfy both situations at once...keeping the game the same and allow the little guys a shot at loot even when the odds are stacked against them so they aren't wholly discouraged/quit? How do you motivate players to PvP and how do you keep casuals in the pixel game?
Most people think you either need major game changes that come from the top or you need a certain guild to quit shitting where they eat. Neither of those things are going to happen though. Period. Making broad sweeping changes to PvP is a bad idea not only from a purist standpoint but also...how much trial and error and debugging do we really need to put on staff? It must be hard enough for them as-is, but the further you remove this server from era-accurate the less appeal it has. I'm not saying the purists are 100% correct in that things need to be strictly old school, far from it. But keeping the balance regarding PvP mechanics is very important no matter if pixels are being fought over or nothing but ego is on the line. Most of the community agrees which is why change happens slowly on this server and changes are often not well received or rolled back.
Let's rule out sweeping changes then.
Ah, the playerbase! Player-driven solutions, right? Well, in short...wrong. This is a free to play server so the whole group up to fight thing is pretty much out the window. We know that doesn't work. Players lack the investment and motivation to do so. Why bother? Just move on and let someone else get zerged right? That sounds real healthy for the server So if the community will not police itself, how about the problem? Glutt will not develop self-awareness and make any effort to be an actual leader. Believe it or not there are sensible members in the guild that understand the meaning of the word restraint and acknowledge the lack of structure of the guild and are trying to make the situation better. HOWEVER, that is not a popular position and since Glutt thinks EQMS = UOF it's little more than a guild that has all the same sort of issues that other guilds have - but on a larger scale. If the guild was run better there would be less harmful impact on the server, less in-fighting, and scuffling over nothing. I've seen it and seen it, it happens in all guilds. Glutt struts his stuff but most see through the BS and know that he's one part self-important, one part putting on a show, and one part ethy unicorn/transparent mythical creature.
I'm rambling, but again we know this is not an option. I mean just fucking lol. Intellectualism is dead. This is Trump's America, where you been?
Since we can clearly see that nothing will change unless staff makes it so, and they can't change much about the PvP mechanics to try to curb the threat to the average player...staff just have to do one simple thing that most game developers have caught onto.
Throw the players a fuckin' bone and don't be so stingy with pixels for crying out loud.
Here's how you do it
You're not going to read that article, but the gist of what is contained in that behemoth is that if you show players they are working towards something they are more likely to participate and achieve that goal.
Look at the case studies. It works. It works when you're training your meta doesn't it? Your talisman?
This sort of mentality can be applied to pixel incentives in any number of ways. You can let players fill their champ progress bars to claim their reward (see: this suggestion) and you can even have seasons where the accumulation of progress gets wiped. If you didn't have enough progress to get a relic maybe you can afford to take a roll on a random 120 PS, if you can't afford that then a lesser PS...or an artifact. Add more pixels and rares. Real rares not rares via PS or relics. Please do something with champs and rares. The current rare system is fucking garbage. Set up a rotation. Do. Something.
But but but! Devaluation of gold and rares relics and PS and bla bla bla...no. Just stop. That's not a real argument the UOF economy cannot be that hard to manage and the current climate of this server is pretty crap if you ask me.
I want to be perfectly clear: big drops need to stay. I am not suggesting that big rewards should not drop to players packs to be fought over. This absolutely needs to happen or else we may as well call it trammel.
But if you do this right? You motivate players to participate (even if they know they will lose the fight they will battle more fiercely) and that's what we are after right?
Give incentive to play this game or it's gonna die.
Fact: players choose to PvP even when pixels aren't on the line but that clearly is not as popular as setting out with goal to obtain pixels which *may or may not* involve PvP.
Fact: incentives to PvP aren't inherently a bad idea, but the means of obtaining them sweet pixels combined with the current PvP mechanics is clearly far from ideal.
How do you make changes that satisfy both situations at once...keeping the game the same and allow the little guys a shot at loot even when the odds are stacked against them so they aren't wholly discouraged/quit? How do you motivate players to PvP and how do you keep casuals in the pixel game?
Most people think you either need major game changes that come from the top or you need a certain guild to quit shitting where they eat. Neither of those things are going to happen though. Period. Making broad sweeping changes to PvP is a bad idea not only from a purist standpoint but also...how much trial and error and debugging do we really need to put on staff? It must be hard enough for them as-is, but the further you remove this server from era-accurate the less appeal it has. I'm not saying the purists are 100% correct in that things need to be strictly old school, far from it. But keeping the balance regarding PvP mechanics is very important no matter if pixels are being fought over or nothing but ego is on the line. Most of the community agrees which is why change happens slowly on this server and changes are often not well received or rolled back.
Let's rule out sweeping changes then.
Ah, the playerbase! Player-driven solutions, right? Well, in short...wrong. This is a free to play server so the whole group up to fight thing is pretty much out the window. We know that doesn't work. Players lack the investment and motivation to do so. Why bother? Just move on and let someone else get zerged right? That sounds real healthy for the server So if the community will not police itself, how about the problem? Glutt will not develop self-awareness and make any effort to be an actual leader. Believe it or not there are sensible members in the guild that understand the meaning of the word restraint and acknowledge the lack of structure of the guild and are trying to make the situation better. HOWEVER, that is not a popular position and since Glutt thinks EQMS = UOF it's little more than a guild that has all the same sort of issues that other guilds have - but on a larger scale. If the guild was run better there would be less harmful impact on the server, less in-fighting, and scuffling over nothing. I've seen it and seen it, it happens in all guilds. Glutt struts his stuff but most see through the BS and know that he's one part self-important, one part putting on a show, and one part ethy unicorn/transparent mythical creature.
I'm rambling, but again we know this is not an option. I mean just fucking lol. Intellectualism is dead. This is Trump's America, where you been?
Since we can clearly see that nothing will change unless staff makes it so, and they can't change much about the PvP mechanics to try to curb the threat to the average player...staff just have to do one simple thing that most game developers have caught onto.
Throw the players a fuckin' bone and don't be so stingy with pixels for crying out loud.
Here's how you do it
You're not going to read that article, but the gist of what is contained in that behemoth is that if you show players they are working towards something they are more likely to participate and achieve that goal.
Look at the case studies. It works. It works when you're training your meta doesn't it? Your talisman?
This sort of mentality can be applied to pixel incentives in any number of ways. You can let players fill their champ progress bars to claim their reward (see: this suggestion) and you can even have seasons where the accumulation of progress gets wiped. If you didn't have enough progress to get a relic maybe you can afford to take a roll on a random 120 PS, if you can't afford that then a lesser PS...or an artifact. Add more pixels and rares. Real rares not rares via PS or relics. Please do something with champs and rares. The current rare system is fucking garbage. Set up a rotation. Do. Something.
But but but! Devaluation of gold and rares relics and PS and bla bla bla...no. Just stop. That's not a real argument the UOF economy cannot be that hard to manage and the current climate of this server is pretty crap if you ask me.
I want to be perfectly clear: big drops need to stay. I am not suggesting that big rewards should not drop to players packs to be fought over. This absolutely needs to happen or else we may as well call it trammel.
But if you do this right? You motivate players to participate (even if they know they will lose the fight they will battle more fiercely) and that's what we are after right?
Give incentive to play this game or it's gonna die.
Bromista
Grandmaster
Link was busted and I can't edit my posts for some reason.
This idea was pretty well-recieved but obviously needs to be given thorough consideration before anything like it is implemented:
Increase drop rate for relics
This idea was pretty well-recieved but obviously needs to be given thorough consideration before anything like it is implemented:
Increase drop rate for relics
Bromista
Grandmaster
And triple post because I'm a heckin' rebel. I'm gonna get ahead of the reply.
Glutt do not show me that my words hurt you. Show me that you understand and wish to make the necessary changes for the betterment of the server.
Glutt do not show me that my words hurt you. Show me that you understand and wish to make the necessary changes for the betterment of the server.
StegcO
Grandmaster
6. Newbie cant play a PVP mage, maybe wanna try more simple dexxer but they need 900k gold runic hammer to restock some death (40? cant remeber)
kolbycrouch
Master
Somebody please explain this to me.
Why would you play this ERA if not for PvP? I'm having a hard time understanding.
From a PvM-only standpoint, AOS is far superior. The PvM you have here seems to go in that direction too ( paragons etc )
I thought people played this ERA because it was brutal and full of PvP/PK.
So anytime I see someone complaining about having a hard time it begs the question, Why didn't they just keep playing OSI?
I came here because it feels like the last brutal/skillful place to play UO. All the other servers are garbage.
Why would you play this ERA if not for PvP? I'm having a hard time understanding.
From a PvM-only standpoint, AOS is far superior. The PvM you have here seems to go in that direction too ( paragons etc )
I thought people played this ERA because it was brutal and full of PvP/PK.
So anytime I see someone complaining about having a hard time it begs the question, Why didn't they just keep playing OSI?
I came here because it feels like the last brutal/skillful place to play UO. All the other servers are garbage.
Bromista
Grandmaster
TBH not everyone is about the game being brutal. Players of all walks, from the early days to the later stages of production UO play here because of the population. This server draws more than just UO:R era players, and is only UO:R based. As time goes on and the server gets older it's only going to get further and further away from UO:R and that's a natural thing because stagnation = death. So it will always be UO:R based and not strictly old-school. Those old school elements are more attractive to some than others but it's something we all understand we have to deal with.
Many people are playing with PvP, not for PvP. They used to say the server was 90% PvM but that was years ago. I am not sure where we stand today.
And as far as the attention that these elements receive...how do I put it...PvM and PvP get a pretty fair balance of attention. Whether you think that PvP or PvM receive the levels they deserve on the whole is a different story, but it used to come and go in waves. Staff used to do things like crank out PvM content pretty heavy for a while, focus on PvP changes for a while, then flip again but lately it seems like everything gets a little attention all the time.
GluttonySDS
Grandmaster
Sorry you feel EQMS is harmful to UOF... show me another guild with PVP vets that will willingly take the time to teach and train new players on how to PVP in 2017. Oh, thats right -- there are none.
Do you think anyone in EQMS gives a fuck if people cry about us? No -- we know if we werent here, there'd be another crew on top ganking and doing whatever else you guys are crying about. In fact some of the biggest people crying about EQMS were the same ones doing the ganking before we came back to this shard.
We will continue to dominate UOF not because we're good, but because we're good at working together.
Bromista
Grandmaster
Same old rhetoric, check.
GluttonySDS
Grandmaster
You come at me and start saying we ruined the server... yet the server has more people than it ever has and in turn is healthier than ever. EQMS provides new and returning players a place to play the game and explore all its content while learning, something which no other guild does.
Are you saying its a problem that we've made EQMS into such a fun group that everyone wants to join us? Should we make EQMS less fun so that other shitty guilds with bad leaders and no archersnon can recruit?
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