Make metas relevant to PVP

[MZ3K]

In the pre-Trammel/Felucia years, skill gains were slow, and most characters on the shard were not 7x GMs. That made PK attempts more interesting: there was a good chance that one player had a statistical leg up on the other player. Consequently, there was a good chance that the PK would die.

In contrast, on UOF (the greatest shard in existence), skill gains are fast, and most players on the shard are 7x GMs. This makes PK attempts less interesting: it's almost certain that no player has a statistical leg up on the other player. Consequently, there's almost no chance that the PK will die.

In most PK attempts on UOF, both players are evenly matched, but the PK has all the advantage: he is mentally prepared and not damaged from combat with mobs, etc. Consequently, the victim either successfully flees or dies. Undoubtedly, there are exceptions, but exceptions are exactly that.

If metas (totems, pets, etc.) were made relevant, it would restore the risk that made PKing exciting. It would also give players a chance for the glory, the stories, and the other intangibles, that come with a victory in a one-on-many fight.

What I mean to propose in this post is the overall idea. I don't mean to propose any specifics, such as whether metas should be as powerful in PvP as they are in PvM or in what circumstances they should be relevant to PvP. I think it's best to first see if the overall idea interests anyone, and leave the debate about the particulars for another thread.

 

[halygon]

Most metas are equivalent to a 7x dragon (or WW) in pvp - this is already pretty huge if you know how to use it. Any PK going into a 1v1 with a tamer is taking a huge risk - usually hoping the tamer doesn't know how to pvp. If the tamer is even half decent at pvp, the PK is probably going to die or have to run for his life.

 

[MZ3K]

That's true, but things might be even more interesting if non-tamers could also have the same chance of a successful retaliation.

 

[Serj]

WTF

 

[halygon]

That's true, but things might be even more interesting if non-tamers could also have the same chance of a successful retaliation.

Well they have only as much chance as they have skill. That's how it should be in UO. If someone really really good at pvp attacks you and you are not very good at it, you should die unless some freak accident happens.

 

[Young Star]

It would be interesting to see what it is like to pvp in the dual pit or test center with the talisman bonus and relic effects turned on. Most likely it would be an unbalanced mess. My guess would be a magi mage or a tank mage with defense talisman would be the best.

 

[MZ3K]

Well they have only as much chance as they have skill. That's how it should be in UO. If someone really really good at pvp attacks you and you are not very good at it, you should die unless some freak accident happens.

I agree with the second part. Your survival should depend on your skill and your stats (if stats shouldn't matter, we wouldn't bother with them).
However, they have less chance that they have skill, because the PK has the advantages that I mentioned in the OP.

 

[Ripstas]

Berserker with full talisman and relics. Phase shift double strike tread. If that wasn't enough throw some incurable poison on the target.

 

[halygon]

Berserker with full talisman and relics. Phase shift double strike tread. If that wasn't enough throw some incurable poison on the target.

None of that works in pvp - only pvm.

 

[GriefedYaBish]

In the pre-Trammel/Felucia years, skill gains were slow, and most characters on the shard were not 7x GMs. That made PK attempts more interesting: there was a good chance that one player had a statistical leg up on the other player. Consequently, there was a good chance that the PK would die.

In contrast, on UOF (the greatest shard in existence), skill gains are fast, and most players on the shard are 7x GMs. This makes PK attempts less interesting: it's almost certain that no player has a statistical leg up on the other player. Consequently, there's almost no chance that the PK will die.

In most PK attempts on UOF, both players are evenly matched, but the PK has all the advantage: he is mentally prepared and not damaged from combat with mobs, etc. Consequently, the victim either successfully flees or dies. Undoubtedly, there are exceptions, but exceptions are exactly that.

If metas (totems, pets, etc.) were made relevant, it would restore the risk that made PKing exciting. It would also give players a chance for the glory, the stories, and the other intangibles, that come with a victory in a one-on-many fight.

What I mean to propose in this post is the overall idea. I don't mean to propose any specifics, such as whether metas should be as powerful in PvP as they are in PvM or in what circumstances they should be relevant to PvP. I think it's best to first see if the overall idea interests anyone, and leave the debate about the particulars for another thread.

uhhh thanks but no thanks...


MZ3K
Newbie





ps @Deadpool add this to the worst suggestions of 2015 poll

 

[Ripstas]

None of that works in pvp - only pvm.

And it would be super op and one shot anyone if it was.

 

[Arch Enemy]

my vote is absolutely no on this suggestion. keep pvp and pvm separate. get better at pvp if you can't stay alive against 1 or 2 pks

 

[Hexoplex]

There's a reason PvP and PvP are not mixed.

You need some more coffee this morning.

@MZ3K - If Metas became viable in PvP, all we would see running around would be groups of Meta Tamers one-shotting every person they came across. There is already rivers of tears flowing in other threads about how tamers are so OP, there would be oceans of tears rivaling Noah's flood if this was implemented.

 

[Cack]

You need some more coffee this morning.

@MZ3K - If Metas became viable in PvP, all we would see running around would be groups of Meta Tamers one-shotting every person they came across. There is already rivers of tears flowing in other threads about how tamers are so OP, there would be oceans of tears rivaling Noah's flood if this was implemented.

Well not really pvm wasn't added to my phone's dictionary.
Auto correct strikes again.

 

[MZ3K]

If Metas became viable in PvP, all we would see running around would be groups of Meta Tamers one-shotting every person they came across. There is already rivers of tears flowing in other threads about how tamers are so OP, there would be oceans of tears rivaling Noah's flood if this was implemented.

Yeah I agree, it could be unbalanced, but that's the sort of thing that could be tweaked: Maybe meta talismans and pets should be relevant only if you're attacked by a player, and not attacked by one. Maybe there's a PvP relic that enables your meta talisman/pet to be relevant in PvP that takes up a slot and excludes certain relics from being added or somewhat, but not entirely, nerfs the extra damage done to targets if they're players. I'm just spitballing.

What I'm really suggesting in this post is that player progression be made relevant to PvP so that PvPers have an end game. Presently, skill/stat development for a PvPer is done in the first week (mostly on overnight macros). It hardly factors into the game for them. It was a HUGE part of PvP in the UO:R days.

 

[Vorax]

Correct me if I'm wrong (Just returned from a long hiatus) but wasn't there a big controversy over how stale pvp was because EVERYONE and their mom had tamers and they all used them for pvp? I'm sure meta's are fine as they are now, and shouldn't be changed anymore.... Tamers aren't meant for pvp, they ruin it, we need more dexxers and mages out there and less dragons and fire breathing horses.

 

[Deadpool]

Correct me if I'm wrong (Just returned from a long hiatus) but wasn't there a big controversy over how stale pvp was because EVERYONE and their mom had tamers and they all used them for pvp? I'm sure meta's are fine as they are now, and shouldn't be changed anymore.... Tamers aren't meant for pvp, they ruin it, we need more dexxers and mages out there and less dragons and fire breathing horses.

I love you.

 

[Bromista]

WTF

This says it all ^

 

[MZ3K]

we need more dexxers and mages out there

So then make the mage/warrior metas good enough to balance things out.

 

[Vorax]

So then make the mage/warrior metas good enough to balance things out.

I have plenty of them... Seems pretty balanced to me You got a pet? I got a para field and ev.

Edit: Believe me, I have a pvp tamer that I used to play quite frequently, its not pvp at that point, its just boring for everyone. metas/death beetles/ and mares are still strong as ever. That being said, they don't need a buff, or a rework.