MURDER COUNT CHANGES

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Don Key

Master
A modest proposal..

Short and long term murder counts.

Yes this has been brought up before, but the current system is broken with the fact that murderers are unfairly punished or not even punished at all. Let me explain with a couple of examples:

1) Murderer A goes around and kills 20 innocent players. Murderer A gets killed by a PK hunting party and is punished for it with either paying his bounty or taking stat-loss. Perfect, this is working as intended. But now Murderer A takes his punishment like a man, and goes about his business. Then he gets killed again later and is punished with stat-loss yet again even though he hasn't murdered a single innocent player in that entire time. This is not working as intended (imo). The murderer has done nothing wrong in that time and shouldn't be punished with stat-loss for simply being red hued. His punishment for having killed innocent players in the past is the red hue that makes him freely attackable anywhere and not being able to have newbie items.

2) Innocent A is farming in a dungeon and notices Inncoent B attacking a paragon. Innocent A realizes he only has 1 murder count with the current system and decited to kill Innocent B before the paragon dies. Since it takes hardly any time for a count to decay, there is literally ZERO punishment for this type of behavior (unless you count being grey for 2 minutes). Innocent A can go about his business and wait for another opportunity to murder an innocent player without any real punishment.

Having short and long term murder counts fixes these problems if when you rez with more than 1 count, you take stat loss. Short term murder counts should take Y hours of in-game time to decay and long term counts should not decay (the amount of time it takes to decay a short term count should be up for debate since this server allows AFK macroing). This would make people think twice before killing an innocent where currently, blue hued players will take a cheap shot at a murder count because they decay so fast and won't be punnished for it.

1. Add short and long term murder counts.
2. Short term counts take at least 8 hours in-game to decay.
3. Long term counts should never decay. You are what you are.
4. Rez'ing with any short term counts AND 5 long term counts (being red) should give you stat-loss.
5. The amount of stat-loss should be 1% for every short term murder count you have when you rez.

The bounty system would need some tweaks.

@Shane
@Adam
 
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Don Key

Master
I assumed as much since the default way of doing things is short and long counts.

My guess is it was to make the bounty system work. I like the bounty system but I would like to hear why both systems can't be used together.
 
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Don Key

Master
My biggest issue with the way it works right now is that the players have 2 choices, either be 'evil' and be red, or be 'good' and be blue. Except that blue hardly ever means 'good'. There should be middle ground, and using short/long term counts provides that outlet. The color of your name shouldn't indicate what you are, just what your tendencies are.
 
K A Z

K A Z

Grandmaster
not sure about this system. It is, however, true that the statloss system is - in some cases - not working as intended. It is by now more or less a tool for bad players to grief others (even more than ganking them with tamers).
 
MANKRIK

MANKRIK

Grandmaster
What I don't like about the current system is that it forces you to have dedicated "good" characters and dedicated reds (usually a stable of them). Once you turn red your character becomes a murderer exclusively and you can't do anything else or else you'll get statted as soon as you die. So you farm and play on your blue and kill and grief on your reds, cycling through them as they get statted. I don't know, maybe I'm just old fashioned and like to play 1 character rather than have 10+ shitty disposable reds. I'd be fine with being branded a murderer for life and being attacked on sight as long as I don't get statted every time I die somewhere.
 
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Don Key

Master
MANKRIK said:
What I don't like about the current system is that it forces you to have dedicated "good" characters and dedicated reds (usually a stable of them). Once you turn red your character becomes a murderer exclusively and you can't do anything else or else you'll get statted as soon as you die. So you farm and play on your blue and kill and grief on your reds, cycling through them as they get statted. I don't know, maybe I'm just old fashioned and like to play 1 character rather than have 10+ shitty disposable reds. I'd be fine with being branded a murderer for life and being attacked on sight as long as I don't get statted every time I die somewhere.
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This is a bingo.

I do think that you should get stat-loss depending on how many short term murder counts you have. It will help to keep the rampant PKing in check.
 
Lexington

Lexington

Grandmaster
Unfortunately... I don't think you'll get much support for this, as you can see by the lack of replies. I'm guessing the reason is, players would be forced to macro off counts, thus tying up an account. Then again... up to three accounts, it shouldn't be an issue?
 
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Don Key

Master
The community on the forums doesn't represent the community in the game. The devs are smart enough to come to their own decision based on what they think is good for the server.

Until one of them tells me to not bother with it I might as well try to convince them otherwise.

But I do think the lack of vitriol tells me something
 
Lexington

Lexington

Grandmaster
Don Key said:
The community on the forums doesn't represent the community in the game. The devs are smart enough to come to their own decision based on what they think is good for the server.

Until one of them tells me to not bother with it I might as well try to convince them otherwise.

But I do think the lack of vitriol tells me something
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Don't get me wrong I'm a supporter with this idea...... I'm just commenting because I was you with this topic awhile back.
 
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Don Key

Master
Like for instance, yesterday. Fighting a titan, some blue guy comes down and asks if I've seen any reds, blah blah.. Nope, went about my business, and he of course came back and Corp Por'd me when I was at low health. Took a count, and went on his merry way.

This isn't to ***** about the fact that guy is a major *****, but the current system encourages this type of play style.

In my proposal, I would assume this player would have a handful of long term counts that don't go away but no short term counts because he is a coward. And since he would have been red, I would have expected the end result.

Instead I have to treat every player I run into on this server like I would treat this guy again. And that discourages positive player interaction; something that is missing on almost every free server I have ever played on.
 
amonseti

amonseti

Grandmaster
Don Key said:
Like for instance, yesterday. Fighting a titan, some blue guy comes down and asks if I've seen any reds, blah blah.. Nope, went about my business, and he of course came back and Corp Por'd me when I was at low health. Took a count, and went on his merry way.

This isn't to ***** about the fact that guy is a major *****, but the current system encourages this type of play style.

In my proposal, I would assume this player would have a handful of long term counts that don't go away but no short term counts because he is a coward. And since he would have been red, I would have expected the end result.

Instead I have to treat every player I run into on this server like I would treat this guy again. And that discourages positive player interaction; something that is missing on almost every free server I have ever played on.
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This server certainly fosters dickheads .. I miss the days where some people actually help out each other from time to time .. there are very few good deeds to be found on this server .. which I agree 100% destroys community involvement / interaction. Its like everyone thinks the goal of the game is to kill everyone just because , as if this was a fantasy version of battle field or tribes where thats the only point of the game..

Today mmos with pvp rule sets force you to choose a faction of some sort that pits groups "A" vs groups "B" .. this is something that is seriously lacking in this game / server (factions here are optional). Currently Pk'ers seem to think factions are "Red" vs "Blue" ... THIS is NOT the intention of the murder system and like ive griped b4 (kicking the dead horse) this is not really pvp.

I think if the server were to force people to choose a faction using race (fey vs dameon) or allegiance (Brits vs Minax) etc . people would band together more and bring reason, goals, tasks for pvp . And bring reason for people of the same faction to work together ..
 
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Don Key

Master
amonseti said:
This server certainly fosters dickheads .. I miss the days where some people actually help out each other from time to time .. there are very few good deeds to be found on this server .. which I agree 100% destroys community involvement / interaction. Its like everyone thinks the goal of the game is to kill everyone just because , as if this was a fantasy version of battle field or tribes where thats the only point of the game..

Today mmos with pvp rule sets force you to choose a faction of some sort that pits groups "A" vs groups "B" .. this is something that is seriously lacking in this game / server (factions here are optional). Currently Pk'ers seem to think factions are "Red" vs "Blue" ... THIS is NOT the intention of the murder system and like ive griped b4 (kicking the dead horse) this is not really pvp.

I think if the server were to force people to choose a faction using race (fey vs dameon) or allegiance (Brits vs Minax) etc . people would band together more and bring reason, goals, tasks for pvp . And bring reason for people of the same faction to work together ..
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I vehemently disagree. If choosing a side was ideal, I would play one of the current mmos out there.

I think UO fosters dickheads in general. I've seen it since the very beginning. There is nothing wrong with being a dickhead. But there should be consequences for being a dickhead (being red).

Currently, it is too easy to avoid being red.
 
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Don Key

Master
amonseti said:
Curious as to your reasons against it .. either way there is certainly a good debate here .
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For starters, I shouldn't be limited to who I can engage in pvp with based off of my race or faction. This actually cuts pvp targets in half if you think about it. It's like being in trammel against half of the population.
 
amonseti

amonseti

Grandmaster
Don Key said:
For starters, I shouldn't be limited to who I can engage in pvp with based off of my race or faction. This actually cuts pvp targets in half if you think about it. It's like being in trammel against half of the population.
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Right . I did not mention it but Id also keep the murder system in .. so if you so choose you can murder people of your own faction .. people could RP playing a mole , or turn coat.
 
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