Static Timers on RDA/IDOC/Boss Spawns increases group PVP

[GluttonySDS]

10 hr static timer is forever tho, by the tenth hour half of uoforever knows the things idoc.
Maybe static is better than random tho i see nothing wrong with the random timer, but 10 hrs is just wayyyyy too much.

I think people got turned off by the 10hours thing DJ... but if you have a time for when the IDOC falls, you dont need to sit there.

Static timers need to be implemented so UOF can have an actual IDOC scene(and finally kill uoforever for good).

 

[Violence]

10 hr static timer is forever tho, by the tenth hour half of uoforever knows the things idoc.
Maybe static is better than random tho i see nothing wrong with the random timer, but 10 hrs is just wayyyyy too much.

Herein lies the problem with the previous poll. A 60 hour static timer and a 2 hour static timer is much the same difference for a serious IDOCer. The length only matters for the casual jump in and go type of IDOC attendee and could easily be adjusted to suit both parties under a static system.

 

[Dj Double D]

True enough, whats ur opinion on just lowering the random timer, @GluttonySDS and @Violence ? Say 2 hrs static and 1 hr random, or does any random timer kill it? I find random timer weeds out the casual campers and only the dedicated wait it out. Either way im not gonna stop working the IDOCs, no matter whats done to the timer... too much of a rush, it should be illegal in some states..

 

[GluttonySDS]

The random timer is what kills the motivation to IDOC -- who wants to spend days upon days checking greatlies to have to sit at an IDOC for an hour plus.

If its gonna be random, it should be like 10 random at most, and thats just to prevent people from recalling in an script placing(which you cant really do since you cant place on top of loot).

IDOCers sometimes die over and over for days trying to time greatlies, they should be rewarded for their efforts with a pretty precise time.

If you dont time IDOCs, your current IDOC experience will remain the same -- you hear about an IDOC, have no idea when it drops, and sit there hoping to get lucky. This change just encourages those who are IDOCers to actually go out and IDOC again as they will now have a better chance at being rewarded for their effort.

p.s.

not to mention the PVP that will now be at IDOCs when they are getting ready to drop. On uoforever some of the biggest and best battles were 5mins prior to an IDOC falling....often times with the battle still raging while the house falls and all the solo IDOCers(who had a time) came in and tried to gate out loot while guilds fought for ultimate control.

 

[Violence]

The random timer is what kills the motivation to IDOC -- who wants to spend days upon days checking greatlies to have to sit at an IDOC for an hour plus.

If its gonna be random, it should be like 10 random at most, and thats just to prevent people from recalling in an script placing(which you cant really do since you cant place on top of loot).

IDOCers sometimes die over and over for days trying to time greatlies, they should be rewarded for their efforts with a pretty precise time.

If you dont time IDOCs, your current IDOC experience will remain the same -- you hear about an IDOC, have no idea when it drops, and sit there hoping to get lucky. This change just encourages those who are IDOCers to actually go out and IDOC again as they will now have a better chance at being rewarded for their effort.

p.s.

not to mention the PVP that will now be at IDOCs when they are getting ready to drop. On uoforever some of the biggest and best battles were 5mins prior to an IDOC falling....often times with the battle still raging while the house falls and all the solo IDOCers(who had a time) came in and tried to gate out loot while guilds fought for ultimate control.

The last bit I really miss. It suits my crews play style and is an absolutely exhilarating feeling to get caught up in the chaos. What I truly miss though is working with an international crew with a variety of useful IDOC skills. Having a HQ that we stockpiled all our IDOC looted sewing kits and divvied them out like it was Christmas morning. Stationed our reds not knowing if we were heading into glorious battle or utter defeat. And of course our most prized possession of all, the coveted timing books.

Sadly, none of this matters anymore or has been enormously nullified.

I would agree that a short static timer (for those who want to occasionally try IDOCing without wasting their life away) and 10 minute random would probably suit most people, though I don't think its absolutely necessary. Any more and I think it starts to have a negative impact on any conflict that might occur.

But I agree with @Dj Double D that a longer timer does weed out the less dedicated, which I'm not entirely against. But for better or worse, the random timer was put in to make IDOCs more inclusive. But at what cost?





PS.

Don't forget kids. 90% of IDOCs are sewing kits.

<3

 

[GluttonySDS]

The random timer killed the IDOC scene, 100%. I know of at least 5 people from uoforever(one who ran a large guild there) who didnt want to come here after I told them IDOC timers were random.

Static timers = an actual IDOC scene on UOF.

 

[halygon]

Herein lies the problem with the previous poll. A 60 hour static timer and a 2 hour static timer is much the same difference for a serious IDOCer. The length only matters for the casual jump in and go type of IDOC attendee and could easily be adjusted to suit both parties under a static system.

I would argue that a 60 hour static time and 2 hour static timer are completely different. In the larger (and in reality it would be 10-11 hours as it was before on here), the chances of a random passerby seeing an idoc and sitting at it for a couple hours to get loot is small because the window is so large. If the window is small, it is essentially the same thing as a random timer.

The window needs to be a large enough size to encourage guilds and individuals to track and time idocs, but not so large that IDOCs do not occur often.

Keep in mind another point. The original purpose of the IDOC status is to let the owner (or co-owners) know that their house is gonna fall if they don't do something. Making this IDOC time (random or static) ridiculously small defeats that purpose altogether.

 

[Violence]

I would argue that a 60 hour static time and 2 hour static timer are completely different. In the larger (and in reality it would be 10-11 hours as it was before on here), the chances of a random passerby seeing an idoc and sitting at it for a couple hours to get loot is small because the window is so large. If the window is small, it is essentially the same thing as a random timer.

The window needs to be a large enough size to encourage guilds and individuals to track and time idocs, but not so large that IDOCs do not occur often.

Keep in mind another point. The original purpose of the IDOC status is to let the owner (or co-owners) know that their house is gonna fall if they don't do something. Making this IDOC time (random or static) ridiculously small defeats that purpose altogether.

The point that I was illustrating was that IDOC guilds tend to time their IDOCs, as opposed to the general public. We are not concerned with the length of the timer, but whether it is static. But otherwise, you are absolutely right.

Regardless though, the interval between houses falling would mostly be the same even on a ridiculously large 60 hour timer, though perhaps there would be a small decrease due to more more time for the house to be noticed and refreshed. But obviously I'm not actually in favour of such a timer.

If you're going to have a random timer it needs to be small enough to encourage IDOC guilds to form. The static part can easily be adjusted to how inclusive you want to make it and how much leeway you want to give the home owner.

 

[GluttonySDS]

10 hour static timer = IDOC scene bigger and better than Hybrids ever was.

 

[Dj Double D]

Those are my sewing kits! Hands off!

 

[Karl Sagan]

We try to be as populist as we can here. I put it to a vote and the general public appeared to like the randomized timer. Personally, I thought the vote would have turned out way different as there was such an uproar when it was changed from static to random. I don't know. Give me a really really good reason to change it.

I thought a static timer would be good and would revitalize the idoc scene. However, a bunch of people invaded the thread I made and said the IDOC scene is still thriving and there are guilds that still solely do it. I don't know...what is the general consensus here guys?

Ugh. Using popular opinion to guide policy results in dumbed down crap served up to the lowest common denominator. That kind of approach is what brought us trammel.

You will never make UO as popular as a game like WoW. Stop trying. Just make it the best felucca shard you can and stop trying to make everyone happy all the time. People crying does NOT mean something needs to be fixed.

IDOCs were fine when the timer was static. There were multiple guilds doing them and for some mysterious reason (people crying) Shane looked into IDOCs when they were being dominated by one group (other guilds were reforming at the time). I remember the conversations and it was clear that staff opinion of IDOCs was colored almost entirely by Bryce (pbuh), who's experience was based on tagging along with shitters like ! who were on 24/7 and used illegal clients to script IDOC checks/placement. Totally unwilling to listen to counter arguments.

The random timer did nothing but destroy established IDOC guilds. The wealth was redistributed to people who continued to sit for hours on end waiting for their handout. This who favored skill and coordination in their pursuit of an advantage gave up.

The IDOC scene here is garbage. There are no IDOC guilds that I am aware of. Guilds that hear of an IDOC and then go? Sure. Guilds coordinating and running zones, checking runes, timing and raiding idocs? None.

I've given up on IDOCs being fixed but can't not comment on these threads. You gave in to the people who randomly found an IDOC and sat for 8 hours only to get smashed the last 2 minutes.

 

[Dj Double D]

The IDOC scene here is garbage. There are no IDOC guilds that I am aware of.

Who says there has to be acknowledged and recognized "IDOC" guilds, or that it has to be a 'scene'?
I have yet to see a house fall that I was the only person at that WASN'T a 7x7.. seems like there are plenty who still follow them, mark and time them, and have the patience and/or resources to profit from them.
Why do there need to be guilds, or 700 people at every house dropping? If its due to a desire for PVP, thats not the point of IDOCs, just one aspect of them, and not a necessary one at that. If people want PVP there are literally dozens of other options to choose from. IDOC'ing is a legit trade, and plenty still partake.
I just dont see the imminent, hugely important need to increase participation. Those who want to do IDOCs, ARE DOING THEM. Im still here and still doing em. Static timer, random timer, doesnt matter. Im still scoring them free lewtchies!!
Not seeing a need to increase my competition, it is already a very active scene.

 

[Malkraven]

Who says there has to be acknowledged and recognized "IDOC" guilds, or that it has to be a 'scene'?
I have yet to see a house fall that I was the only person at that WASN'T a 7x7.. seems like there are plenty who still follow them, mark and time them, and have the patience and/or resources to profit from them.
Why do there need to be guilds, or 700 people at every house dropping? If its due to a desire for PVP, thats not the point of IDOCs, just one aspect of them, and not a necessary one at that. If people want PVP there are literally dozens of other options to choose from. IDOC'ing is a legit trade, and plenty still partake.
I just dont see the imminent, hugely important need to increase participation. Those who want to do IDOCs, ARE DOING THEM. Im still here and still doing em. Static timer, random timer, doesnt matter. Im still scoring them free lewtchies!!
Not seeing a need to increase my competition, it is already a very active scene.

or its the vultures who are left cos all the real idocs crews except for getemboi have quit idocs....

IMO the only legit idoc crew atm is Getemboi and im 99% sure he would vote for a 10hr static timer in a heartbeat

 

[Karl Sagan]

Who says there has to be acknowledged and recognized "IDOC" guilds, or that it has to be a 'scene'?
I have yet to see a house fall that I was the only person at that WASN'T a 7x7.. seems like there are plenty who still follow them, mark and time them, and have the patience and/or resources to profit from them.
Why do there need to be guilds, or 700 people at every house dropping? If its due to a desire for PVP, thats not the point of IDOCs, just one aspect of them, and not a necessary one at that. If people want PVP there are literally dozens of other options to choose from. IDOC'ing is a legit trade, and plenty still partake.
I just dont see the imminent, hugely important need to increase participation. Those who want to do IDOCs, ARE DOING THEM. Im still here and still doing em. Static timer, random timer, doesnt matter. Im still scoring them free lewtchies!!
Not seeing a need to increase my competition, it is already a very active scene.

Please tell me your process for doing an IDOC.

I want to do idocs. I used to be able to make that happen because I could spend my free time tracking them, then plan my day around when they fell (take lunch to IDOC, set alarm for 3am to IDOC, etc). I do not have four hour blocks of time to sit around doing nothing, so I put in my time when I could by tracking idocs. It's not less time (it's actually much more), but it is time spent when it works for me (or others in my crew).

Just because a handful of people sit for hours waiting for free loot, does not mean the IDOC scene is in good shape.

IDOCs are a great way to fuel player conflict. They should be used as such, instead of some sort of boring sit-in.

 

[VFingerDiscount]

How bout just get rid of houses dropping loots. And have everything inside house sucked up and added to random drop tables from all mobs. Make hunting fun.

 

[Violence]

How bout just get rid of houses dropping loots. And have everything inside house sucked up and added to random drop tables from all mobs. Make hunting fun.

But some of us don't enjoy PvM.

Some of us enjoy trading, or mining, or poker or hell, I don't know, IDOCing?

 

[Karl Sagan]

How bout just get rid of houses dropping loots. And have everything inside house sucked up and added to random drop tables from all mobs. Make hunting fun.

I don't think taking a game mechanic -that can lead to massive fights, player conflict/collusion, planning, scheming, and screwing over- and trashbarreling it is much of a solution.

Want to know what would make hunting 'fun' for me? Not a fucking thing. Just like there are plenty of people who would never enjoy idocs.

 

[VFingerDiscount]

Just tossing stuff out there. I'm not built for idocs. I stick to poker pvm and blue pking personally. PvP is too scary and idocs breed more PvP and I only have one clean pair of shorts left.

 

[Violence]

Who says there has to be acknowledged and recognized "IDOC" guilds, or that it has to be a 'scene'?
I have yet to see a house fall that I was the only person at that WASN'T a 7x7.. seems like there are plenty who still follow them, mark and time them, and have the patience and/or resources to profit from them.
Why do there need to be guilds, or 700 people at every house dropping? If its due to a desire for PVP, thats not the point of IDOCs, just one aspect of them, and not a necessary one at that. If people want PVP there are literally dozens of other options to choose from. IDOC'ing is a legit trade, and plenty still partake.
I just dont see the imminent, hugely important need to increase participation. Those who want to do IDOCs, ARE DOING THEM. Im still here and still doing em. Static timer, random timer, doesnt matter. Im still scoring them free lewtchies!!
Not seeing a need to increase my competition, it is already a very active scene.

It's a 2 way street. While you'll see veteran IDOC crews return, the people who simply wanted a free hand out will probably leave when they realise that there is more to IDOCs than hearing about one on IRC.

Under a revitalised IDOC system, when you consider the counter-timing, block placements, deception, alliances and selling of solid timers to the highest bidder, you already have a pretty exclusive and in depth IDOC system for those who want it. These are our orange, red and yellow pots, and you're doing it wrong if you go out there without them.

You could always always try to go without, but don't expect to be as successful as the big boys.

 

[Violence]

Just tossing stuff out there. I'm not built for idocs. I stick to poker pvm and blue pking personally. PvP is too scary and idocs breed more PvP and I only have one clean pair of shorts left.

Fresh ideas are not a bad thing. It's better than throwing your arms up in the air and saying "Fuck it, it's too hard. Please fix this."