Reagent Bag (Blessed)

[Winstonian]

I think you need a lesson in basic economics if you think it would benefit scribes. Demand would go up, but so would supply. We both know it would never happen here, anyway. And it seems like you're just trolling at this point instead of addressing the bigger issue. You also haven't responded to a single one of my points, each of which is relevant.

You called this concept "trammelish". I didn't like this idea, but I hate words like that... I think they're cop outs. There are plenty of blessed conveniences here, as well as other things that have been implemented that have improved the game despite being "trammelish".

I'm not addressing your points because, frankly, there's nothing to address. My stance is obvious, and this conversation is irrelevant. (And I'm typing from my phone, which annoys me.)

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[uruguayan sayan]

A blessed piece of clothing doesn't affect UO gameplay at all, while it adds a decent money sink. A good money sink that doesn't affect gameplay is a good thing. No one (except probably you) cares about some guy's blessed white robe. You pretty much ignored the point of my post,. again. Trammel means protection against PKs. No player playing to kill other players cares about a clothing item. If, by chance, they weren't blessed, a PK would never see them out in the field. A blessed reagent bag would seriously damage PvP, not just aesthetics as a blessed clothing item does. Bless all statues, clothes, statues, and plants. They should never be valuable to a PvPer. I think it's funny you hate the word "trammelish," and don't really give a fuck if it bothers you. Trammelish motherfucker, that's what a blessed reagent bag is.

 

[Winstonian]

A blessed piece of clothing doesn't affect UO gameplay at all, while it adds a decent money sink. A good money sink that doesn't affect gameplay is a good thing. No one (except probably you) cares about some guy's blessed white robe. You pretty much ignored the point of my post,. again. Trammel means protection against PKs. No player playing to kill other players cares about a clothing item. If, by chance, they weren't blessed, a PK would never see them out in the field. A blessed reagent bag would seriously damage PvP, not just aesthetics as a blessed clothing item does. Bless all statues, clothes, statues, and plants. They should never be valuable to a PvPer. I think it's funny you hate the word "trammelish," and don't really give a fuck if it bothers you. Trammelish motherfucker, that's what a blessed reagent bag is.

Runebooks?

I don't give a shit about blessed clothes. Yes, you somehow missed the point again.

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[Undeadenemy]

To all the people who simply wrote "no" and added nothing further to the discussion. How about justifying your opinion?

@uruguayan sayan I disagree that this makes the game trammelish. Regathering reagents would not be fully stopped by the suggestion I made. Having a small number of reagents that you could keep on you wouldn't allow people to run around with impugnity. Also, as a new character, you're given a paltry 9 game play hours (per account) and are tossed out with a wave and a good luck. I've certainly gotten better at the game, but I've found people turn on you quick, especially blues. My favorite are people who watch you die, take your regs, and then rez you and expect you to thank them. From there you hoof it back to town, and hope you've got enough spare armor and weapons (and regs) to go out and make enough money to recover from your next death.

This isn't about nerfing PVP as an income stream. A PK missing out on 10 or so of each reg isn't going to make or break the run. If people cast even a small number of spells, then THEY WILL BRING MORE.

I also have to agree with Winstonian, people have no problem with blessed spellbooks or runebooks, and the reason for that isn't because they feel sorry for scribes. It's because reloading up a fresh spellbook or runebook is a pain in the ass. That is the only reason they are blessed. Having zero reagents after a death is a pain in the ass. It makes the rez unnecessarily difficult. It adds nothing to the game. At all.

For all you guys who think this would somehow nullify the reagent money sink, you're completely wrong. Reagents are only a sink when they are used (they disappear). They are not a sink when another party picks them up. From the knee-jerk reactions of some of you here, you would think that I was trying to take away your ganking rights or something. I'm not suggesting a Bag of Holding here, I'm suggesting being able to carry around 10-20 of each reagent in a blessed bag, strictly to give you something to fall back on after you die.

Also, I've only been here a little while, but I haven't seen a huge inflation issue on this shard. Items are reasonably priced, they sell quickly, people die, bodies rot, things get added and things get removed. You're worrying about a problem that does not exist. Just because there might be some folks on the shard that can drop 2 million gold on frivolous things doesn't mean the shard is inflated. In any natural system you're going to have people like that. It's just the way things are. It doesn't make the game broken.

@wreckognize No, I haven't seen the video you mentioned, if you link it I would like to watch it. As far as Razor goes, I've been fiddling with it and learning my way through it on my own, however, a guide might be nice in case there are advanced features I missed. I do have the reagents showing along the top of the screen. If you're talking about a macro that pulls fresh regs out of your bank box and organizes them for you then that's great, but that isn't the issue here. The issue is, you're in the middle of nowhere, miles from a bank, you rez after being killed or ganked by PKs or whatever, and you have no ability to heal yourself, and no ability to fight your way out. I'm talking about being able to cast heal on yourself, or fire a couple spells off to be able to come back from a death if you're careful, not that I find reagent organizing annoying (which, I think we all do).


Overall, the reaction is about as I expected. Mostly knee-jerk, a couple of people making good points. The one funny part though I find about this whole thing is that people think looting reagents = money sink. Money doesn't "sink" unless the server eats it. Paying an NPC (non-player-vendor obviously) for something is a sink, dropping something on your corpse is not a sink, unless nobody loots the body and the server eats it. I can't stress that enough. I think that confuses people. Either that, or people think their hardcore game is being threatened here, and they're reacting out of fear rather than thinking what I've said through. (I'm leaning toward the latter.)

I will happily debate with anyone here who is willing to lay out their reasons for being against such a thing. I can't debate "no." but I can debate "No, because of X, Y, Z."

 

[wreckognize]

no because im sure theres alot of regs that have been disintegrated rather than used.
also, this is one of those areas where skill in ability to restock means precious seconds on the feild.
overruled bro
now end plx
just puts a bad taste in lots of players mouths round here i guess

 

[Undeadenemy]

no because im sure theres alot of regs that have been disintegrated rather than used.
also, this is one of those areas where skill in ability to restock means precious seconds on the feild.
overruled bro
now end plx
just puts a bad taste in lots of players mouths round here i guess

Right, there certainly have been plenty of regs that have degenerated. That's what I mean. This doesn't change that. Keeping 10-15-20 of each (whichever it would be) won't cause noticeable inflation.

As far as bad tastes in peoples mouths, I understand that, I really do. But let's be honest here, that isn't a valid game-play reason. I PVP'ed in EVE for over 8 years. Obviously, we had no reagent bag or really anything like that at all as far as a safety net went, but it also didn't take 3-8 different types of ammo to fire your guns. Also, there were higher security areas in the game where people could farm in (relative) peace. They could still be suicide ganked by cheap, high DPS ships, but it would be a suicide mission. That, and they could have war declared on them.

My point is, there is a major difference between making something a certain way because it increases the value of the game-play, and making something unnecessarily obtuse just because a few people think that anything less would equate to turning the server into care bear central.

 

[wreckognize]

perhaps theres something to be said here for mastering the game as it is, before trying to change it and defend the idea.
I appreciate your position as im sure most do, but consider your 8 post approach may not be the best one for a change everyones already talked about but you.

I'm a probability guy, and I'd say the probability of dev's making the game more hand holding and ever adding blessed bags to the server is around between 0 and 2%, I guess it's totally your call if you want to keep this going though ^^

 

[Winstonian]

perhaps theres something to be said here for mastering the game as it is, before trying to change it and defend the idea.
I appreciate your position as im sure most do, but consider your 8 post approach may not be the best one for a change everyones already talked about but you.

I'm a probability guy, and I'd say the probability of dev's making the game more hand holding and ever adding blessed bags to the server is around between 0 and 2%, I guess it's totally your call if you want to keep this going though ^^

I don't disagree with your point, but I don't think it's reasonable to think that his post count invalidates his opinion.

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[Metalhead-]

Fuck no go find trammel else where


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[Wrexx]

Since we are bringing up ******** ideas, add luck into the game. My tamer needs something to farm for.

 

[Undeadenemy]

Again, I would understand the counter-argument better (if there was one) if someone could explain to me how hoofing it naked through the wilderness every time you die contributes positively to the game. As I've said, there is a difference between hardcore mechanics that make sense, versus those that do not. Repeating myself again here, I'm not talking about a bag of holding to store all your loot. This is about a small amount of reagents that would at least let you heal yourself up a bit before you run the gauntlet naked.

To be honest, if we want to talk hardcore here lets talk hardcore. Really when you die you ought to keep nothing. But the same people on here talking about trammel this and trammel that, love the fact that they get to keep their spell book, and their rune book. Maybe all you people have a house filled with thousands of reagents, and its just a simple matter for you to recall to it and restock and return in 5 minutes. You aren't typical. The game should not be balanced around you, it should be balanced around the average. There is no good reason you should have to micromanage 9 different resources to do basic stuff. Obviously, that's the way that Ultima has always worked, I understand that. But letting you keep 10 of each reagent for emergencies is a far cry from Trammel. Hell, even Siege Perilous let people Siege Bless an item of their choice.


The main thing I'm looking for here, is an honest debate about the topic. I couldn't care less about the knee-jerkers or what they think, because they don't think, they just react.


I will gladly, and calmly debate point for point with anyone here who can actually come up with substantive game design reasons why 10 of each reagent being safe would hurt the game. Hell, I'll even play the devils advocate here and come up with a scenario for you to get it started:

Say a player put only 2 types of reagents in his bag. He knows he only casts a couple spells, and only needs those 2. This would allow that player to cast say, heal, and poison repeatedly after rez.

That is a legitimate game-play reason that would have to be worked around somehow. That's an example of what I'm talking about. If people would be honest and upfront about the reasons they think it is a bad idea, rather than just dismissing something out of hand because "trammie fags" then I would be more than willing to listen to it.

 

[wreckognize]

I don't disagree with your point, but I don't think it's reasonable to think that his post count invalidates his opinion.

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i didn't say it invalidated his opinion. What does though is how he has admitted to not really understanding the current techniques, which players here have already taken the time to master.

It's not about post count at all really, I only brought it up because he can't be bothered to use the forum search tool to find the video guide alan made for razor so he obviously hasn't done any research on past regeant stocking solution threads either.

 

[wreckognize]

The main thing I'm looking for here, is an honest debate about the topic.

'' Again, I would understand the counter-argument better (if there was one) ''

The veteran players here are already set in their reg management techniques. Proper reg management is essential to PvP. Being able to rez fully stocked will cause balance issues in the feild and in other ways. I would say that newbied regs are similar to target closest in that it gives power to newer players. Since day one, this server has never had newbied regs or blessed containers and I imagine it has alot to do with these items past history of exploitation.

 

[Wrexx]

Who runs anywhere after they Rez? Load your fucking runebook with recall scrolls

 

[Metalhead-]

How about this. Don't come in and try and change something that's not broken? Welcome to the server. Here we manage our own experiences with the time we use to prep our characters, houses , and bank boxes so we can return to fighting with no difficulty at all. With a little patience you could learn to do the same instead of changing something we figured out years ago.




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[Mathias]

I'm sorry, but is this seriously a thread about how MAGES lose too much from dying?

My mind is completely blown. This idea is THE most trammelish idea I have ever heard of, short of actually suggesting they add Trammel.

Good thing you only play pure mages, cuz holy crap how would you deal with losing gear, even just A SINGLE good weapon? If the OP isn't trolling, then I'm sorry but I have no clue where your head is at bro.

 

[uruguayan sayan]

I played on a PvP

My point is, there is a major difference between making something a certain way because it increases the value of the game-play, and making something unnecessarily obtuse just because a few people think that anything less would equate to turning the server into care bear central.

I played on a free server with no reagent requirements. It was non-stop action since weapons, armor, and skills were given away, too. It was a PvP server. That server died pretty quickly.

I know your idea isn't anywhere near as extreme as this. The only point I'm trying to make is that this server has reached its player count because of its unique gameplay. Reagents are an annoyance for every mage, including me. But it's part of the game. Dying, losing your items, making it really suck when you do die is Ultima Online.

If I were to just find UO:F's website and see it advertise oldschool gameplay, and "Yes, you can buy blessed reagent bags!" I would probably question admin judgement here, and I honestly wouldn't even bother to join. To me, it's much worse than being able to buy gold and 7x templates for donations on uoforever.

 

[Winstonian]

Who runs anywhere after they Rez? Load your fucking runebook with recall scrolls

Pfft. Blessed runebooks with recall scrolls are so trammel. We should be hardcore.

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[TriXa]

the only cool thing would be a blessed bag but that will not hold anyitems on dying but its just a nice to have and not really needed. because that simple click more or lesser to target a new bag is a joke.

 

[zoneseek]

pure tram