Why aren't guild sizes limited?

[Poptart]

I played a pk deep in stat for a lot of years on Pacific. And it really made a good balance. People didn't just make reds to make them, and that's what they do here. There was a good mix between blues and reds. Nice and segregated. It caused reds to really pay attention and not just kill whoever whenever. There was a lot of preparation and planning when you went out on stat reds.

If you want balance, ultimately you know what to do. And this is coming from someone that pks mainly to make a living. You need to ignore all these people whining about implementing perma stat as these are the ones that wouldn't be reds in the first place. Just trying to fake it to make a name for themselves.

QQ

Sallos is cancer.
Factions is useless.
Bring back O/C. Maybe then people will actually venture out of WBB to other towns looking for oranges. WBB is the only place that isn't a ghost town.

 

[Blaine the Gypsy]

To me there's 3 different types of guilds.
PVP - Highest risk of losing equipment, spawns, etc
PVP/PVM - Medium risk
PVM - Lowest risk (besides being victims of PVP)

A typical player has at least one of each of these types.
PVP - guild you should be flagged attackable by any other PVP guild period. Like factions/evil-good/chaos-order.
PVP/PVM - guild you have the choice of flagging yourself innocent or open to pvp. The moment you help anyone flagged PVP you become PVP with no turning back.
PVM - Blues. A guild flagged like this can not have any one marked as PVP nor can they help/aid those possibly flagged PVP. If someone flags as PVP they are dropped automatically from the guild.

That's the closest thing I can say without creating a Trammel.

 

[K A Z]

You're not understanding.
I wouldn't be posting here, keeping up with it and putting attention into this thread if it was a growing issue that me and adam have talked about and been concerned about over the last probably 3-4 months.

We have been trying to just let things work itself out hopefully while giving small insights on what may happen eventually if things get too out of hand over the last year even.

Now i'm currently getting daily complaints, we are getting posts all accross the forums like this.
It's becoming a server wide issue now, not as large as maybe i'm making it out to be, but it will be if things are put in place here.

If perma stat makes people roll deeper, fine, then we can make better rewards to hunt pk's if thats the case. Risk vs Reward.

I'm just pretty tired of losing players to pk's, and when i say losing players i mean we've lost THOUSANDS to this single issue, and those pk's turn around complaining that theres no pvp/action and want us to do more for them. They basically don't feel challenged because theres fucking no risk what so ever to pking as far as i have witnessed lately.

Maybe Ultima Online just isn't for those people then? I don't see why a 20 year old game should be changed in its core (and the core is part of the reason why the game despite having been raped by EA is still around) for people who have yet to try it / who stood away from the game for 15 years. Also, I would like you to play a bit yourself in the next weeks to experience the "PK problem" on your own. Maybe you could also ask some PKs if you could join them in their daily ventures - unfortunately I won't be home until next week, else I'd LOVE to take you with me on one of my rides so that you could see that player opinions are ALWAYS flawed - no matter what their playstyle is.

 

[Slick Brick]

It's truly a hard thing to deal with.
We've only had issues with large guilds maybe 3 times max. All of them being pk guilds.
I'm going to assume this is mostly about EQMS,

While EQMS is not breaking any rules, by mass recruiting they for sure have driven off a lot of pvp for themselves and others simply by playing the game as intended. In large groups, with many friends.

We cannot punish them for that, there's no grounds too, and they are honestly all very nice/good people in that guild. That play style is just what they love, playing in numbers is a lot of fun most people here can agree with that.

However, at the same time we need to absolutely look out for Ultima Online Forever's best interest and i think we can all agree on that as well too right?

So, that leaves us with a rather large issue. EQMS originally came back to UO FOREVER because factions and pvp was booming. However after months now, pvp is once again dying out and i've been getting requests (mostly from eqms, and glutt himself) to revamp factions all over again. This would be the 4th time revamping factions. Factions, and how factions works isn't the issue anymore guys. We should of seen this a lot sooner really.

This faction system is WHY eqms came back here.
Before EQMS the factions were booming, people were having a lot of fun.
Now i have EQMS asking us to change it up due to lack of faction pvp.
I also have some other pvpers asking us to do more to further push PvP.
What happened here guys?

We really shouldn't have to overhaul such a large system multiple times a year to keep people interested.
Truth is It just isn't fun to face large ganks like they produce due to the girth of their guild and i get that. There's no point even. But to have those larger guilds wanting us to focus on PvP, without really coming to terms with whats best for UOF and working with us, is a fucking hard pill to swallow guys.



Anyways, all in all having a guild the size of EQMS, although doing nothing wrong or breaking rules, can, and is for sure hurting UO FOREVER.
They for sure DO NOT have those intentions, in fact EQMS has very good intentions for UO FOREVER as far as i'm concerned.

I've brought this issue up a lot to Gluttomy, and there's really no argument response that can defy what i said above, because factually it's true, it's just how it is.

They will have to make some changes, split their group, do something a bit different-
Once we see them trying to take my experienced advice, mixed with the rather large complaints seriously and try to work with the community, and everyone a little more then i will really work with them as a large guild as well.

IF they don't really want to work with everyone here as a community and the community leaders than things like limiting guild sizes, harsher pk penalties, and some other things are most likely going to be implemented.

Lot's to think about. It's personally a really shitty position as a owner of a server honestly.

The reason people are leaving the server is because guilds like POWER got shat on in group fights and so they go in and res kill naked people 1000 times over without any repercussions after people have got the Arch Daemon to 3%. Some other players are trying to get a crumb of the mass wealth attained by the top 5 or 6 people on the server but they say "Oh hell no, we must have 50 of everything." They got wrecked so hard so many times that they now resort to gang-banging and res killing people without end every single time there is a chance that someone else might accumulate any wealth. The server would be better off with them gone. LOL

 

[Shortbus]

People will write EasyUO macros.

Isn't EasyUO illegal here???

 

[K A Z]

The reason people are leaving the server is because guilds like POWER got shat on in group fights and so they go in and res kill naked people 1000 times over without any repercussions after people have got the Arch Daemon to 3%. Some other players are trying to get a crumb of the mass wealth attained by the top 5 or 6 people on the server but they say "Oh hell no, we must have 50 of everything." They got wrecked so hard so many times that they now resort to gang-banging and res killing people without end every single time there is a chance that someone else might accumulate any wealth. The server would be better off with them gone. LOL

didn't you tell people in my guild to go nd hang themselves etc? I don't get why you cry about being resskilled (something easily avoidable btw) when you're being obnoxious.

 

[Poptart]

if perma stat was introduced I would have to overthink my don-loot-newbies policy, I guess. Not sure if perma statloss is something that should be considered - just because it worked 15 years ago doesn't mean it still would today. The blue zerg is real, aswell. I guess most of you haven't had to run through a whole dungeon with blues recalling in left and right trying to cut you off.

That's the point bro. Preparation and planning. Have that select group of guys that are on top of their game and roll with them. Have that designated blue healer or two. And have that char that can open a gate when shit gets deep. That's when pking gets real.

 

[Slick Brick]

All your suggestions are bad in my opinion.


All your suggestions are bad in my opinion.

Sallos needs to go, great suggestion

 

[Shane]

Maybe Ultima Online just isn't for those people then? I don't see why a 20 year old game should be changed in its core (and the core is part of the reason why the game despite having been raped by EA is still around) for people who have yet to try it / who stood away from the game for 15 years. Also, I would like you to play a bit yourself in the next weeks to experience the "PK problem" on your own. Maybe you could also ask some PKs if you could join them in their daily ventures - unfortunately I won't be home until next week, else I'd LOVE to take you with me on one of my rides so that you could see that player opinions are ALWAYS flawed - no matter what their playstyle is.

People have been using that line for as long as i can remember and i don't really think "Maybe UO just isn't for them" cuts it anymore. I admit i also thought that way for a long time. However if we think like that what the hell are we doing here ? Do you guys want more people to play with, do you want NEW NEW players who have never played UO to get into this and eventually start pvping/pking. That shit doesn't happen over night. I really don't think "Maybe UO isn't for them" cuts it at all anymore. This game is genius and an exact mix of some of the most popular games out today, and in the last 5 years.

Also viewing this as just a 20 year old game doesn't help either man. If i viewed this server like everyone knew everything about UO already instead of marketing it like a new exciting game we wouldn't of even made it past our first week of launch.

I did PK a bit with EQMS, i've also faught against EQMS with Trinsic, not sure if you knew that. I seen instantly how fucking lame it was to have an even fight against EQMS while i was playing with trin, and then EQMS calling in 4 additional people right away. Everyone just said fuck it.
There's your problem.

However that is how i know first hand the guys in EQMS are really great people. Same with trinsic. amazing groups


I can play with whoever you currently run with though one night. I'd also like to run with POWER for a night and TBA

 

[Pandone]

Maybe Ultima Online just isn't for those people then? I don't see why a 20 year old game should be changed in its core (and the core is part of the reason why the game despite having been raped by EA is still around) for people who have yet to try it / who stood away from the game for 15 years. Also, I would like you to play a bit yourself in the next weeks to experience the "PK problem" on your own. Maybe you could also ask some PKs if you could join them in their daily ventures - unfortunately I won't be home until next week, else I'd LOVE to take you with me on one of my rides so that you could see that player opinions are ALWAYS flawed - no matter what their playstyle is.

there's RED pk problem? no
there's blue pk problem? yes

 

[coon slayer]

The reason people are leaving the server is because guilds like POWER got shat on in group fights and so they go in and res kill naked people 1000 times over without any repercussions after people have got the Arch Daemon to 3%. Some other players are trying to get a crumb of the mass wealth attained by the top 5 or 6 people on the server but they say "Oh hell no, we must have 50 of everything." They got wrecked so hard so many times that they now resort to gang-banging and res killing people without end every single time there is a chance that someone else might accumulate any wealth. The server would be better off with them gone. LOL

Did someone in power kill ur family? so salty.. you res at the ankh at arch daemon when people are trying to take the spawn, wtf do you expect?

 

[K A Z]

That's the point bro. Preparation and planning. Have that select group of guys that are on top of their game and roll with them. Have that designated blue healer or two. And have that char that can open a gate when shit gets deep. That's when pking gets real.

i know how it works, played a statloss PK on Defiance from 2005-08 got up to around 1k-1.5k shortterm murder counts and died maybe 10 times in those years.. the difference was, though, that back then not everyone was in a call etc. and could instantly call in fifty others.

People have been using that line for as long as i can remember and i don't really think "Maybe UO just isn't for them" cuts it anymore. I admit i also thought that way for a long time. However if we think like that what the hell are we doing here ? Do you guys want more people to play with, do you want NEW NEW players who have never played UO to get into this and eventually start pvping/pking. That shit doesn't happen over night. I really don't think "Maybe UO isn't for them" cuts it at all anymore. This game is genius and an exact mix of some of the most popular games out today, and in the last 5 years.

Also viewing this as just a 20 year old game doesn't help either man. If i viewed this server like everyone knew everything about UO already instead of marketing it like a new exciting game we wouldn't of even made it past our first week of launch.

I did PK a bit with EQMS, i've also faught against EQMS with Trinsic, not sure if you knew that. I seen instantly how fucking lame it was to have an even fight against EQMS while i was playing with trin, and then EQMS calling in 4 additional people right away. Everyone just said fuck it.
There's your problem.

However that is how i know first hand the guys in EQMS are really great people. Same with trinsic. amazing groups


I can play with whoever you currently run with though one night. I'd also like to run with POWER for a night and TBA

just hit up @God.RG , maybe he can invite you to play with POWER one night. I can see that fighting EQMS and fighting with EQMS you got to see some shitty stuff that might be scary to new players but what does it help to punish everyone who loves to play reds over them?

I'd also love to see new players, but what I was trying to say was that maybe UO just isn't for _everyone_, you know? Obviously people will quit over PKing- that's why UO is UO. Some can stand the risk, others can't.

 

[Shane]

I wouldn't say mass amounts of people are "leaving the server" in fact we've had more people on than recent weeks last week alone.

It's also no single guilds fault for any of this, this is just a situation of growth and balance.
It is a situation that i think everyone can agree should be addressed.

 

[Shane]

I'd also love to see new players, but what I was trying to say was that maybe UO just isn't for _everyone_, you know? Obviously people will quit over PKing- that's why UO is UO. Some can stand the risk, others can't.

Yes i agree with that, however when you look at the numbers man, it's insulting.
15,000 players in the NEW guild, which was created some time AFTER our launch.
That alone tells you the numbers of people who have joined and quit, even factoring in new vet players, etc.

 

[Slick Brick]

I played a pk deep in stat for a lot of years on Pacific. And it really made a good balance. People didn't just make reds to make them, and that's what they do here. There was a good mix between blues and reds. Nice and segregated. It caused reds to really pay attention and not just kill whoever whenever. There was a lot of preparation and planning when you went out on stat reds.

If you want balance, ultimately you know what to do. And this is coming from someone that pks mainly to make a living. You need to ignore all these people whining about implementing perma stat as these are the ones that wouldn't be reds in the first place. Just trying to fake it to make a name for themselves.

QQ

Sallos is cancer.
Factions is useless.
Bring back O/C. Maybe then people will actually venture out of WBB to other towns looking for oranges. WBB is the only place that isn't a ghost town.

That was one of the most iconic things in the game for me was being able to cast spells with that order/chaos shield on and going and finding enemies of the opposite allegiance. I wish some skills would change up too, I kinda miss parry actually being useful.

 

[Pandone]

People have been using that line for as long as i can remember and i don't really think "Maybe UO just isn't for them" cuts it anymore. I admit i also thought that way for a long time. However if we think like that what the hell are we doing here ? Do you guys want more people to play with, do you want NEW NEW players who have never played UO to get into this and eventually start pvping/pking. That shit doesn't happen over night. I really don't think "Maybe UO isn't for them" cuts it at all anymore. This game is genius and an exact mix of some of the most popular games out today, and in the last 5 years.

Also viewing this as just a 20 year old game doesn't help either man. If i viewed this server like everyone knew everything about UO already instead of marketing it like a new exciting game we wouldn't of even made it past our first week of launch.

I did PK a bit with EQMS, i've also faught against EQMS with Trinsic, not sure if you knew that. I seen instantly how fucking lame it was to have an even fight against EQMS while i was playing with trin, and then EQMS calling in 4 additional people right away. Everyone just said fuck it.
There's your problem.

However that is how i know first hand the guys in EQMS are really great people. Same with trinsic. amazing groups


I can play with whoever you currently run with though one night. I'd also like to run with POWER for a night and TBA

Re do desert titans days + 4hrs flat skill loss for red+ no skill loss on meta/pets but RELICS stop if pets are gray. You have open dungeons so summon balls will be always buyed from ppl but pet griefing stops

 

[K A Z]

Yes i agree with that, however when you look at the numbers man, it's insulting.
15,000 players in the NEW guild, which was created some time AFTER our launch.
That alone tells you the numbers of people who have joined and quit, even factoring in new vet players, etc.

I DO agree that people should be encouraged to keep on playing but how many of those players actually didn't continue to play because of PKs? I'd bet that neon colors, weird mounts and the lack of tutorials scared away just as many people.

 

[thestand]

Recall macro. This used to be enough to keep the common newb alive. Maybe a lot of newbs quit once they realize how long it takes to gm taming

 

[Slick Brick]

Re do desert titans days + 4hrs flat skill loss for red+ no skill loss on meta/pets but RELICS stop if pets are gray. You have open dungeons so summon balls will be always buyed from ppl but pet griefing stops

No skill loss on pets? Um... NO? Lol. That's the last thing I want to see is every single person running around with a tamer just because they have no penalties upon death. They are overpowered as it is, Quicksilver is redonkulus but at it's price I'm okay with it as long as there's not 100 of them in PvP.

 

[Guwap]

Newbs are still going to get pked either way.. if anything perma stat loss would make everyone roll deeper in dungeons wouldn't it?

Head buyback was increased a few months back to "help combat pks." So was adding insta stat in dungeons. If anything, this has only created larger red groups in an effort to keep from getting statted. Also, the creation of more red characters to bypass the buyback (which should be a straight gold sink anyway).

Perma stat will do the same. This has been predicted before and will be fulfilled again if this is the case. I agree with many others that blue griefers are the real problem here.