archery - pvp - moving shot

[Deriz]

My point is I have killed stun tamers like that morriss dude on steam only using magery and out of all potions 1v1. Does that mean 5x gm mage is balanced to that template?


Regarding dp alchy dexers, my point was the skill required to kill someone in a non open world space with that template is much less than say an archer mage or pvp thief right?

Well, I highly doubt you have killed morris 1v1 5x with no pots while he is on a stun tamer, and the fact that youre playing on steam has no bearing in a 1v1 other than you run much much faster than anyone on sallos and can make scripts to play the game for you where as they cannot.

My point is I consistently fought people on these templates and had great success, as have others such as Blair, Marley etc. So if you are able to defend, and take offense and kill people who are using 'the most op' templates how is that not balanced to a fairly significant degree?

If any of these templates can win any given fight, is that not balanced? Some people may find some templates harder to play well, some may find some easier to play well, but if you put two templates against eachother and both players are of relatively equal skill and either template can win that is balanced.

The subjectivity of who find what template harder / easier to play has nothing to do with balance.

 

[trigga trey]

Well, I highly doubt you have killed morris 1v1 5x with no pots while he is on a stun tamer, and the fact that youre playing on steam has no bearing in a 1v1 other than you run much much faster than anyone on sallos and can make scripts to play the game for you where as they cannot.

My point is I consistently fought people on these templates and had great success, as have others such as Blair, Marley etc. So if you are able to defend, and take offense and kill people who are using 'the most op' templates how is that not balanced to a fairly significant degree?

If any of these templates can win any given fight, is that not balanced? Some people may find some templates harder to play well, some may find some easier to play well, but if you put two templates against eachother and both players are of relatively equal skill and either template can win that is balanced.

The subjectivity of who find what template harder / easier to play has nothing to do with balance.

Beating Morris on his tamer or any other build he decides to use isn't too hard.
I killed him on his tamer on a scribe after my reflect was already down and all of my purple pots were gone..

 

[Deriz]

Beating Morris on his tamer or any other build he decides to use isn't too hard.
I killed him on his tamer on a scribe after my reflect was already down and all of my purple pots were gone..

doubtful.

who are you in game? Morris is a can ill give you that, but he isnt a total noob. He can compete in alchy duels w/ anyone on the shard, so for some house mage to say he 5xd morris 1v1 on a tamer with no pots is quite a stretch.

 

[Czech Razor]

doubtful.

who are you in game? Morris is a can ill give you that, but he isnt a total noob. He can compete in alchy duels w/ anyone on the shard, so for some house mage to say he 5xd morris 1v1 on a tamer with no pots is quite a stretch.

I ran out of pots by the time I could turn on him. Played a and against a mare riding mage tamer on several shards. If you off screen just far enough you can force a constant mount/remount battle with their mare.while casting. He probably would kill me if we fought again as I have very little kill pressure and most likely took him by surprise.

 

[Czech Razor]

Well, I highly doubt you have killed morris 1v1 5x with no pots while he is on a stun tamer, and the fact that youre playing on steam has no bearing in a 1v1 other than you run much much faster than anyone on sallos and can make scripts to play the game for you where as they cannot.

My point is I consistently fought people on these templates and had great success, as have others such as Blair, Marley etc. So if you are able to defend, and take offense and kill people who are using 'the most op' templates how is that not balanced to a fairly significant degree?

If any of these templates can win any given fight, is that not balanced? Some people may find some templates harder to play well, some may find some easier to play well, but if you put two templates against eachother and both players are of relatively equal skill and either template can win that is balanced.

The subjectivity of who find what template harder / easier to play has nothing to do with balance.

Sorry still had 2 cure pots left

 

[Czech Razor]

doubtful.

who are you in game? Morris is a can ill give you that, but he isnt a total noob. He can compete in alchy duels w/ anyone on the shard, so for some house mage to say he 5xd morris 1v1 on a tamer with no pots is quite a stretch.

He is a good player and probably much better than me on this server. You dont understand though. I agree with most all of what you are saying, I just took issue with on one hand you want to use the "well it requires more skill to use alchemy so it should have greater benefits" but maintain that it is irrelevant when comparing the skill level of playing a poison alchy dexer to one of the templates you mentioned.

 

[Peav]

doubtful.

who are you in game? Morris is a can ill give you that, but he isnt a total noob. He can compete in alchy duels w/ anyone on the shard, so for some house mage to say he 5xd morris 1v1 on a tamer with no pots is quite a stretch.

morris was/is a perfect example of how not to play a stun tamer on this server. i gotta give him that, did a favour for the community.

 

[trigga trey]

doubtful.

who are you in game? Morris is a can ill give you that, but he isnt a total noob. He can compete in alchy duels w/ anyone on the shard, so for some house mage to say he 5xd morris 1v1 on a tamer with no pots is quite a stretch.

Can't tell you that.
But I've known Morris for a pretty long time.. His game plan is pretty simple and it's very easy to out think the guy.

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

Notice: You can NOT throw purple potions while holding a bow. =\

 

[Derwolf]

Notice: You can NOT throw purple potions while holding a bow. =\

unequip bow
start cooking pot
Reequip bow
throw pot

 

[Trojandrew]

i put up something similar on Moving shot archery, my thought was you'd need an extra skill for it like GM animal lore so you can control your mount enough to shoot on the move. it would balance a bit since you'd lose 100 skill in something so you'd have to trade off. since archery/tactics/anat/healing/AL you only have 2 more to play with instead of 3

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

unequip bow
start cooking pot
Reequip bow
throw pot

In that time you just lost the ability to shoot arrows; since bows don't have insta-hit. You take off bow, and cook a pot, then re-arm a bow, but it doesn't fire when it would have when you took it off, and now sits idle for a sec or two on top of the fact that you still need to sit idle yourself just so you can shoot the bow at all.

In that time the mage has got off a new spell (or two, if it was low circle) AND thrown a pot, or thrown a pot and ran off.

In that time the 2-hand weapon warrior has charged and attacked you AND thrown a pot.

In that time a 1-hand weapon warrior has attacked you (and probably poisoned you #poisonedweapon ) AND thrown a pot.

Even a 'sword&board' warrior can throw purple pots without taking off a shield or weapon.

i put up something similar on Moving shot archery, my thought was you'd need an extra skill for it like GM animal lore so you can control your mount enough to shoot on the move. it would balance a bit since you'd lose 100 skill in something so you'd have to trade off. since archery/tactics/anat/healing/AL you only have 2 more to play with instead of 3

That's great, but what if you're not mounted? I'm loosing 100 points for no reason. xD

 

[Trojandrew]

That's great, but what if you're not mounted? I'm loosing 100 points for no reason. xD

then stay mounted when you fight and/or pick your battles (dont only fight in no mount zones). that 100 skill is a tradeoff for making your archery more powerful. gotta use it wisely.

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

then stay mounted when you fight and/or pick your battles (dont only fight in no mount zones). that 100 skill is a tradeoff for making your archery more powerful. gotta use it wisely.

If i'm mounted I can't stealth.

 

[Trojandrew]

can you mount while stealth? if so you can just stealth up, mount shoot then run away while shooting. if not, then dont us it on your stealther, since you'd have no defensive skills left other than hiding

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

can you mount while stealth? if so you can just stealth up, mount shoot then run away while shooting. if not, then dont us it on your stealther, since you'd have no defensive skills left other than hiding

I think the horse following me around would give away my stealthiness.

 

[Trojandrew]

i was thinking more of casting a ethy mount (dont have one so dont know if casting it reveals you). when i stealth i always tell my horse to stay so it doesnt give me away. plus you can use is as a getaway vehicle too if you dont go too far from it.

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

i was thinking more of casting a ethy mount (dont have one so dont know if casting it reveals you). when i stealth i always tell my horse to stay so it doesnt give me away. plus you can use is as a getaway vehicle too if you dont go too far from it.

Not everyone has an ethy mount so talking about rule changes, or mechanics changes that would effect everyone you can't factor them in. Regular mounts I don't mind adding to the equation because they are very easy to get.

But anyways, you've just added whole new problems; one being the very obvious need for a mount in this scenario. Leaving a mount idle in the woods is one thing, but leaving it idle in a dungeon? Forget PK's, reg monsters will slaughter the poor-beast.

You CAN add ehty's to the discussion though if everyone is given one.

DM's? *hint hint, nudge nudge*

 

[Trojandrew]

But anyways, you've just added whole new problems; one being the very obvious need for a mount in this scenario. Leaving a mount idle in the woods is one thing, but leaving it idle in a dungeon? Forget PK's, reg monsters will slaughter the poor-beast.

you can drop hiding, pick up magery, and cast invis on yourself and ur pet (dont know havent tried) then stealth to your target.

this is more of a tradeoff for when you are doing open pvp, not stealth archer setups, plus ethys only cost about 170k so just gotta save up for one.

you can always drop something else too, thats the fun about adding a give and take situation. drop your dex down to 80, put 45 in int. instead of healing use magery. all this is theoretical anyway so imagining scenarios and builds with it is the fun part.

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

you can drop hiding, pick up magery, and cast invis on yourself and ur pet (dont know havent tried) then stealth to your target.

this is more of a tradeoff for when you are doing open pvp, not stealth archer setups, plus ethys only cost about 170k so just gotta save up for one.

you can always drop something else too, thats the fun about adding a give and take situation. drop your dex down to 80, put 45 in int. instead of healing use magery. all this is theoretical anyway so imagining scenarios and builds with it is the fun part.

Incorrect, if I were to drop hiding below 80 I can no longer stealth, and instead would receive the message, 'You are not well hidden enough. Become better at hiding.'
I have magery already for healing, summons and easy travel. I already have 50 INT for 8th Circle spells.

But we're getting off topic, we were talking about bows and their use in PvP.

Mostly I'm pointing out that:

"In that time you just lost the ability to shoot arrows; since bows don't have insta-hit. You take off bow, and cook a pot, then re-arm a bow, but it doesn't fire when it would have when you took it off, and now sits idle for a sec or two on top of the fact that you still need to sit idle yourself just so you can shoot the bow at all.

In that time the mage has got off a new spell (or two, if it was low circle) AND thrown a pot, or thrown a pot and ran off.

In that time the 2-hand weapon warrior has charged and attacked you AND thrown a pot.

In that time a 1-hand weapon warrior has attacked you (and probably poisoned you #poisonedweapon ) AND thrown a pot.

Even a 'sword&board' warrior can throw purple pots without taking off a shield or weapon."